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Topic: Crochet in the round completely flat. Is it possible? Please help  (Read 1354 times)
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lincoln
« on: May 12, 2008 07:46:45 PM »

I am pretty new to crochet, and have made some hats mostly.  I really want to create a hat with a flat top, and also some with a flat brim on the hat.  Yet, every time I make some thing that I would think would be flat, it gets very very wobbly. 

I had thought that if I make a chain of 5-10 stitches, then attach the ends to make it a ring, then SC into each stitch twice and continue with that in each round that it would increase the stitches making it like a flat disc.  But, it just gets crazy wobbly.

Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong or another way to approach this?

Thanks,

Lincoln
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darncat
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008 08:42:29 PM »

Hiya,
It is totally possible to make it flat. Here is a bit of math that will help.
Lets say you Ch 8 join to make a ring.
1. *1 scinc* 8 times 16 sts
2. (1 sc, 1 scinc) 8 times 24 sts
3. (*1 sc* 2, 1 scinc) 8 times. 32 sts
4. (*1 sc* 3, 1 scinc) 8 times. 40 sts

The reason it gets a little wobbly is because you're increasing to many times per round. Try the math I have listed above. If you want the top to stay flat increase until you get the top size you want and then in the Back Look Only single crochet around until you get where you want to be. I wrote single crochet but you can use any stitch you want.

Hope that helps.
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lincoln
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008 12:04:23 AM »

Thanks for the help.  That all makes sense, but what does "scinc"  mean?

Also, when doing sc to have the hat going down vertically, and then wanting to go completely horizontal for the brim what would you recommend?

Thanks again.
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TLW
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008 01:14:45 AM »

'1 scinc' would mean increase one stitch => stitch two stitches in the next stitch.

Basically, you get a flat circle, by increasing every nth stitch in every nth row.
(Where I do not count the base chain as a row, to make things easier)
So:

Chain 8
1st row: increase every stitch => 16
2nd row: increase every second stitch => 24
3rd row: increase every third stitch => 32
4rd row: increase every fourth stitch => 40
etc.

This will work, no matter mow many starting chains you have. You will see that for every row you increase the number of stitches with the amount you have in your base chain.  (6=>12=>18=>24=>30=> etc.) [1].

If you increase the way you did (increasing 2 in every stitch), you will end up with too much stitches for the perimeter. And the thing will wobble. If you stop increasing, your flat circle will turn automatically into a 'cup' / sphere.

And that leads me to the second part of your question (where I am less experienced).
I have noticed that if you start to the 'vertical' part, the 'flat' top will naturally curve. => You'll end up with a cup / sphere thingummy. Now I have only made 'stuffed' things, so maybe this problem solves itself.

So far I have solved this problem by making a (flat) circle separately. Then making the 'vertical' part, and then sewing them together. However, I can imagine that if you would use some 'special' stitch in your last 'row' of the flat round, you might be able to do the vertical part 'perpendicular' to the flat part.
Does this make sense?
Or did I make you even more confused?

TLW

[1] As an aside, I have found  recently when I was using very bulky yarn (9mm needle) I ended up with something wobbly, so maybe the 'system' is different for bulky yarns.
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darncat
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2008 10:08:00 AM »

And that leads me to the second part of your question (where I am less experienced).
I have noticed that if you start to the 'vertical' part, the 'flat' top will naturally curve. => You'll end up with a cup / sphere thingummy. Now I have only made 'stuffed' things, so maybe this problem solves itself.

So far I have solved this problem by making a (flat) circle separately. Then making the 'vertical' part, and then sewing them together. However, I can imagine that if you would use some 'special' stitch in your last 'row' of the flat round, you might be able to do the vertical part 'perpendicular' to the flat part.


As I said when you reach the size of the flat top you want, the next round would be worked in the Back Loop Only. This method will create a turning point, it creates a sharp turn rather than a curve.
Thanks for the help.  That all makes sense, but what does "scinc"  mean?

Also, when doing sc to have the hat going down vertically, and then wanting to go completely horizontal for the brim what would you recommend?

Thanks again.


scinc= single crochet increase, 2 stitches made in the next space/stitch

To get the horizontal brim, after you have made the turn by working a round in the back loop only, just work your next rounds without increasing. Say the last increase round had 100 sts, then all the remaining rounds will be made with 100 sts. No more, no less.
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lincoln
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008 01:27:42 AM »

Perfect!  Thanks for helping me to understand it.  Smiley

One other question.  It seems like in patterns (although I am only using them to learn since I want to make up my own stuff), they say to join and then chain stitch at the end of each round.  I have tried that, and I have done things without doing that.  It seems to look better without doing that.  Am I doing something wrong then when I follow the directions?

What would be the reason for joining each round rather than just keep going?

Thanks again.
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fantasticmio
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008 06:23:21 AM »

If you don't join each round then you end up with a spiral.  Not a bad thing, per se, but it might make what you're planning on doing harder once you get to the vertical part.

With the joining thing, some folks tie off the yarn and then start it again somewhere else in the circle, that way you don't end up with a stack of chains up one side.  I haven't tried this yet (haven't had a need to) but it makes sense to me.  It leaves more ends to deal with, though. ^_^

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TLW
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2008 05:39:28 AM »

OK, Now I am shamelessly plugging a link that a fellow craftster has found (Thank you again Gaby2) in the 'Anarchy hat' thread. But I think this shows exactly what you should do when you want to join rounds, while it should still look good.
I even think that when you do it like this, there is no need for the 'starting again' solution that fantasticmio wrote about.

http://www.hook-and-hype.de/?page_id=100

Sometime ago, I asked more or less the same thing (because my pattern called for joining rounds, and I couldn't get it right) and then someone said that essentially the difference between the two is that 'joining rounds will give you a 'perfect' round circle, whereas spiralling will always show a 'bump' at the last stitch.
And indeed it does.


And darncat:
Thank you so much for repeating the piece about the backloops. I completely missed it the first time round, but I have already used to my benefit last night.



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darncat
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008 10:35:06 AM »

And darncat:
Thank you so much for repeating the piece about the backloops. I completely missed it the first time round, but I have already used to my benefit last night.


No biggie, just trying to help.

When I use the spiral method if I want to get rid of the "bump", right before I get to the end I start to use slip stitches or shorter stitches until I finish the last round. I don't mind using the ch 1 method, I use it allot. Kinda my little cheat.
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