Craftster Community

NEWS AND DISCUSSION ABOUT CRAFTSTER => Craftster Itself => Topic started by: SpottedFrog on April 05, 2009 08:18:07 PM



Title: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: SpottedFrog on April 05, 2009 08:18:07 PM
I have noticed that the little Google ads that used to sit politely at the bottom of any forum thread I was reading have jumped up to just under the top post, even on multiple page threads this happens. That is really %$#%ing annoying.

I understand that it costs money to run a website, but the ads are taking over.
Right now I'm looking at three different ads for the same place, all dominating the page making any cool stuff people made fade into the background. It makes me come here less.

I want the old days of Craftster back when there wasn't 2/3 of ever page covered with completely unrelated advertising.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 05, 2009 08:36:12 PM
There are so many crappy ads on Craftster now, that it is almost impossible to ignore them.  It's definitely annoying.  And getting less and less fun to come here.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 05, 2009 08:38:29 PM
I could be mistaken, but I think the Ads by Google have been under the first post of each page for a very long time now.  I'll check with the team to verify, though.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 05, 2009 08:46:41 PM
Ah, yes.  They have been in place since at least 06/09/2007.

Unless there is something new I'm not seeing.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 05, 2009 09:00:42 PM
I think it's because there are so many ads on the page now, that we are seeing them more.  Google ads are under the first post and down the side of the page, and even sometimes they seem to appear at the top of the page. 

I'm just glad I'm not seeing classmates anymore.  Or have I just gotten used to it and don't see it.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: SpottedFrog on April 06, 2009 05:28:12 AM
Quote
Ah, yes.  They have been in place since at least 06/09/2007.

Unless there is something new I'm not seeing.

I know the Google ads have been on Craftster that long, but I do not think they have been under the first post that long. If so that should be a big red flag as to how much of a turn off it is. Really, instead of telling me how wrong I am maybe you should be thinking about what I said is the effect on me from all the ads on this site. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way I just took the time to tell you.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 05:35:21 AM
Yes, they have been under the first post for that long.  My point is, if they have been there for this long and you have just now noticed them, maybe they are not so annoying and obvious after all.

And yes, we have been told that some people do not appreciate the ads.  It's not like we do not realize this and we haven't spent many, many hours discussing it as well as trying to find other ways to make income, though.  That being said, no one has taken the time to tell us another effective method in which we can raise money to run the site.  We're definitely open to ideas and suggestions.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: Black_Sheep09 on April 06, 2009 06:09:07 AM
Hey everyone!  My first post weeeee (been trolling for some time).  I do agree that ads can be a bit annoying, but coming from other sites of this nature, at least these all appear to be pretty relevant to crafting.  A website with so much graphics, membership (almost 175,000, go Craftster!), and so much traffic has to take a considerable amount of hardware to run.  I'm sure none of that hardware or bandwidth is very cheap.

Just an idea to the mods though...perhaps we could stop the ads and just run the whole website on love?  Yeah, I'm sure you would have to downgrade the equipment, but if we were all running on love, whats it matter if we have to wait a few minutes between pages, right?

Joking aside, I really do appreciate this site.  The ads are far less annoying than many places I go (I have yet to see a punch the monkey flash up) and the fact that a site with so much information is not a private "pay-to-view" site is very much appreciated.  I did see your Friends of Craftster information when I just signed up, and I'll be filling that out soon.  I'm sure if more of us used that, the need for ads would be much less, right?


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 06:23:34 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Blacksheep.  Yes, becoming an FOC definitely does help.

If it could run on love, we'd be all set! :D  I gotta lot of love!


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: MissDisney on April 06, 2009 06:45:48 AM
i am a girl who will wait till 30 minutes in to her FAVORITE show to avoid commercials..but not because i hate advertising

on the contrary, i love it...i love the many purposes it serves, that it helps people find things, sell things and run thing

the ads dont bother me at all. i used to be on for HOURS and hours everyday....then things got all wonky in 2008...but i am back to visiting as often as i can, more and more as the days go on (i dont find enough to post about, but thats cos i am in a weird place creatively)...basically, i love the ads, they make craftster possible, and with that, all things are possible (in my world)

*ah yes, why do i hate commercials..they are repetitive, loud and lack creativity in almost every facet of the word.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: taerowyn on April 06, 2009 07:10:22 AM
I think they've been there for forever. I'm so used to ads on the internet now though that I've got a pretty high-tuned filter and really, for the most part, can completely tune them out.

Has Craftster ever considered doing a higher tier of FoC that allows you to block the ads for those who don't have a good mental filter and are bugged enough that they might be willing to pay for it (she suggests, having no idea how much coding that that might actually entail)? I know of at least one site, Livejournal, that does that. You can have a basic membership that still includes ads, or a deluxe (or something) membership where you don't...so the site either makes the money from the ads or from the non-ad users' higher "dues."

Just a thought...myself, I'm fine with them. I can tune them out, but can also, on occassion find some interesting stuff if I'm interested in looking

And definite props for keeping them mostly craft focused...actually, the only time I remember seeing non-craft focused ones, was some Doctor Who/Sci Fi Channel ones, while looking at some Doctor Who swap galleries. Scary on target, but on target nonetheless.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: SpottedFrog on April 06, 2009 07:25:15 AM
Quote
Yes, they have been under the first post for that long.  My point is, if they have been there for this long and you have just now noticed them, maybe they are not so annoying and obvious after all.

The size of the font has changed, significantly. It used to be smaller than the posting text, now it's double.

Quote
And yes, we have been told that some people do not appreciate the ads.  It's not like we do not realize this and we haven't spent many, many hours discussing it as well as trying to find other ways to make income, though.  That being said, no one has taken the time to tell us another effective method in which we can raise money to run the site.  We're definitely open to ideas and suggestions.

BS. I used to be a FoC, there were several long threads in that forum discussing various other options. Why did I not renew my FoC? You Sweets. I don't know exactly what I did but even after long stretches of not posting I still get attitude from you and I never could figure out exactly what it was that I did to get such animosity from you. Of course everyone who hasn't got the "too bad, shut up" side of Sweets will pile on & tell me I'm the mean one, I expect that, such is the internet.
bye bye.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 07:27:21 AM
It's not BS at all.  We haven't gotten any effective suggestions.  Yes, we get lots of suggestions, but if they don't work, we have to stick with the ads.

As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry you feel that way.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: Black_Sheep09 on April 06, 2009 07:42:49 AM
Quote
Yes, they have been under the first post for that long.  My point is, if they have been there for this long and you have just now noticed them, maybe they are not so annoying and obvious after all.

The size of the font has changed, significantly. It used to be smaller than the posting text, now it's double.

Quote
And yes, we have been told that some people do not appreciate the ads.  It's not like we do not realize this and we haven't spent many, many hours discussing it as well as trying to find other ways to make income, though.  That being said, no one has taken the time to tell us another effective method in which we can raise money to run the site.  We're definitely open to ideas and suggestions.

BS. I used to be a FoC, there were several long threads in that forum discussing various other options. Why did I not renew my FoC? You Sweets. I don't know exactly what I did but even after long stretches of not posting I still get attitude from you and I never could figure out exactly what it was that I did to get such animosity from you. Of course everyone who hasn't got the "too bad, shut up" side of Sweets will pile on & tell me I'm the mean one, I expect that, such is the internet.
bye bye.

I don't want you to think I disagree with the fact that ads are a bit unsightly and annoying, but I am going to have to agree with Sweets4ever on the fact that there are very few options.

I think you have proved this issue at hand through your posts.  Rather than say "ads suck, lets fix this" you just go on a tirade about how the font size has been resized and the placement has changed (in your opinion).  Although kudos for you for speaking your mind, tsk tsk for not at least offering a better suggestion other than ads.  Sure yelling at the sun because it's bright may make you feel a bit better, but wouldn't putting sunglasses on make more sense?

I like the idea that another person posted about a higher level of FOC to eliminate ads.

I think a campaign to get more members to join FOC in order to cut back on advertising.  I'm sure we could get the mods to give us the number of members they need or something of the likes.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: jungrrl on April 06, 2009 07:54:01 AM
Of course everyone who hasn't got the "too bad, shut up" side of Sweets will pile on & tell me I'm the mean one, I expect that, such is the internet.

I would never say "oh my God it's impossible for you to read that from Jean's messages!"  What I would say is that we don't ever intend to come across with that tone, but sometimes we honestly just don't know what else to say. I know it probably might seem like we don't work 40+ hours a week on this site but.. we do.  And I know that it surely doesn't seem like we have days and days worth of conversations and actions put toward more craft related advertising but.. we do.  So sometimes it's just really hard for us to hear suggestions about things that we've tried and things that haven't panned out for us. It's hard that people expect those to be an easy as pie fix because we know that they haven't been.  It's hard to know what to say to that other than, "we did our best but right now we can't change it, I'm sorry".  :-\


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 06, 2009 07:58:43 AM
There are many ways to deal with this situation.  Most of them are not feasible, from a programmer's point of view.  

Yes, we could make this site a pay-as-you-go.  But we would lose many valuable artists and crafters who could not afford to stay.  

We could eliminate some of the ads, and some bandwidth along with it.  

We could make several layers of payment, but that's a programmer's nightmare.

One of the things that is being done as we speak is that the amnesty program is in place and seems to be working to clean up the duplicate accounts.  

I'm sure there are other ways of dealing with the ads, but at the moment I haven't a clue.  I will be thinking about this, now that I'm aware of it.  Hopefully, I will come up with something that will help.

What bothers me more than the ads is the number of people who will join just to spam.  If there was a way to allow people to join without allowing the robots, I think that would go a long way to fixing some of this.  Maybe one of those boxes where you have to retype the letters and number that you see.  Robots cannot physically read, so they can't comply.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: jungrrl on April 06, 2009 08:04:37 AM
We did put a better spambot filter in place after we had a particularly nasty run of spambots a few months ago.  It's been better since then but that still doesn't stop human spammers.  :-\  We just have to stay on the ball with that one and ban them as soon as they're reported.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: taerowyn on April 06, 2009 08:16:48 AM
What bothers me more than the ads is the number of people who will join just to spam.  If there was a way to allow people to join without allowing the robots, I think that would go a long way to fixing some of this.  Maybe one of those boxes where you have to retype the letters and number that you see.  Robots cannot physically read, so they can't comply.

If you do go the CAPTCHA route, can I recommend linking in with this project: http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/10/02/1224204.shtml It's pretty nifty distributed computing project...I know I find CAPTCHAs so much less annoying when I think they're also helping decipher old texts.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 08:20:10 AM
This is what we use right now.  I'm going to check out your link!



Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 06, 2009 08:24:01 AM
We did put a better spambot filter in place after we had a particularly nasty run of spambots a few months ago.  It's been better since then but that still doesn't stop human spammers.  :-\  We just have to stay on the ball with that one and ban them as soon as they're reported.

I wasn't aware of the new spambot filters.  That's a good thing, and exactly what I was talking about.

As for human spammers, it's up to all of us to try to catch them.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: taerowyn on April 06, 2009 08:34:05 AM
This is what we use right now.  I'm going to check out your link!

Yeah, it's been so long since I've registered I can't even remember what was required then...


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 06, 2009 08:55:11 AM
This is what we use right now.  I'm going to check out your link!

Yeah, it's been so long since I've registered I can't even remember what was required then...

Yeah, me too.  I know it wasn't the same as now.  I think I would have remembered that.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 09:01:34 AM
It's definitely changed over the years.  We also added the 13-year checkbox.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 06, 2009 11:39:27 AM
What's a 13-year checkbox?


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 06, 2009 11:53:38 AM
I says, "I am at least 13 years old."  I think we added that one a year or two ago, but it wasn't part of the original design.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: pinokeeo on April 06, 2009 12:06:35 PM
Duh!?  I should have known that. :D

I think you are all doing a great job keeping this website together.  I looked around at a full page today, and decided I actually prefer the google ads between posts, rather than down the side.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: blubel on April 07, 2009 12:33:53 AM
I'm using Ablock Plus, a Firefox extension for blocking ads, and haven't seen an add in ages, in all of the sites I visit.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: Kristen81 on April 07, 2009 01:35:30 AM
Adblock Plus is the way to go!!!!  Not a single ad anywhere and pages load a zillion times faster!  That's probably solve the OP's problem...well, the ad problem anyway.   ;)


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: ghilie on April 07, 2009 04:46:29 AM
I don't see any ads, really.  I got some text ads on the side that are very non intrusive.  I think I see one on the top of the main page.  I turned the ads off when it became an option for FoC.  I don't know if that option still exists, but I never regretted becoming an FoC.  I certainly wouldn't stop being an FoC because of a perceived attitude from a mod.  If you like a site, you support it - to help keep it around. 


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: Lody on April 07, 2009 04:58:17 AM
Adblocker is great indeed--I feel like I'm back on the "web1.0" when I look at pages on another computer that doesn't have it xD The net without ads is so much nicer xD

That said, I've always wondered, does adblocker reduce the revenue of the site posting those ads? Or does it coutn as if I had seen them?

One more totally unrelated thing, at the top of this page I am seeing "Craftster Community > NEWS AND DISCUSSION ABOUT CRAFTSTERNEWS AND DISCUSSION ABOUT CRAFTSTER > Craftster Itself >"
SHould that news and discussion be there twice?


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: leah on April 07, 2009 06:35:13 AM
It's totally everyone's right to use ad blockers but just keep in mind that if you to this you're preventing us from making a certain amount of money that we need to run this site. :( And you're missing out on some great crafty advertisers. :)

For those who are unhappy with the current kinds of ads and ad placements right now...

We are working our butts off to get more and more craft-related advertisers. Every day we get a little further with this but it's a tough nut to crack. I'm sure you've noticed that the internet is exploding with ads for cell phones and not so much with ads for sewing machines. ;) But we're working hard to change that here on Craftster! We've got an awesome sales dude who's on the phone all day long working on this.

In the mean time we've still got 4 full-time employees to pay and an expensive server cluster. So we need to do what we can to bring in money but at the same time we certainly want to hear everyone's feedback on how we are doing at this and if we need to improve or change how we're doing this.

So thank you for the feedback!


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: kjlutz on April 07, 2009 06:45:18 AM
First of all I want to thank everyone at Craftster who works to have pertinent ads on the site. 

That said, I am more than happy to have some ads on my screen (and yes I've even checked out some of the crafty companies who advertise here) if it means that Craftster can keep running, and pay its employees a livable wage. 

Who am I to complain if a company wants to subsidize my favourite website, and if looking at their ads is the price to pay for this wonderful site, then so be it.

And just think, unlike the problems with other forms of media, the advertisers don't censor what goes on here, so there's really nothing to worry about  :).   


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: antarcticraft on April 07, 2009 08:43:52 AM
BS. I used to be a FoC, there were several long threads in that forum discussing various other options. Why did I not renew my FoC? You Sweets. I don't know exactly what I did but even after long stretches of not posting I still get attitude from you and I never could figure out exactly what it was that I did to get such animosity from you. Of course everyone who hasn't got the "too bad, shut up" side of Sweets will pile on & tell me I'm the mean one, I expect that, such is the internet.
bye bye.

One gentle suggestion would be to start off by writing your posts and your comments with a positive and respectful tone, rather than using profanity and an disresepctful attitude. If you start off with that mentality, it becomes really difficult to interpret any response (typed, on the internet) as anything other than "attitude."


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: IamSusie on April 07, 2009 09:32:44 AM
I'm just weighing in to say that the little google ads do not bother me.  I hardly notice them.  The ads that I don't like are the ones that move and flash excessively.  Thank goodness the amount of those ads is way down here.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 07, 2009 09:35:45 AM
I'm just weighing in to say that the little google ads do not bother me.  I hardly notice them.  The ads that I don't like are the ones that move and flash excessively.  Thank goodness the amount of those ads is way down here.

My personal thoughts exactly.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: leah on April 07, 2009 09:36:35 AM
Thanks for the feedback IAmSusie and all! :) We're working hard to replace those ads with good-looking craft company ads.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: wanderingskopos on April 07, 2009 10:49:24 AM
This is one of the few sites that I allow to show ads, even though I do have AdBlocker. I don't click them, since I don't normally do online shopping, but I've allowed them and frankly I hardly notice them anymore. The ads here are unobtrusive compared to most sites, and some of the craft-related ones are even fun!

(And the Google ad font is smaller than the post font, at least on Firefox.)


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: AsphaltQueen on April 07, 2009 11:13:26 AM
I'm just weighing in to say that the little google ads do not bother me.  I hardly notice them.  The ads that I don't like are the ones that move and flash excessively.  Thank goodness the amount of those ads is way down here.

Hunh. I didn't even notice the google ads after the second post until it was just pointed out to me. Yeah, I'm quick like that. ;)

As for the ads, yeah, I like it better the old way but this has been hashed and rehased over many a different discussion. I do think you guys have done a great job of getting rid of the really annoying ads and I've gotten used to the others. Plus, I'd say that close to 75% of the ads I see are crafting related. (Even if it's only a very loose link, like with that maghound thingie - they do have crafting mags, so I count that as a crafty link.)

I'm already a FOC and don't think I'd spend extra money to go add-free. Obviously it depends on the pricing, but I don't think you guys could make it cheap enough to where I'd say "Yeah, that's worth it."

That's my $0.02 and I just wanted wanted to throw it out there before this thread gets too snarky and I stop reading it. ;)


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 07, 2009 11:26:55 AM
I'm just weighing in to say that the little google ads do not bother me.  I hardly notice them.  The ads that I don't like are the ones that move and flash excessively.  Thank goodness the amount of those ads is way down here.

Hunh. I didn't even notice the google ads after the second post until it was just pointed out to me. Yeah, I'm quick like that. ;)

As for the ads, yeah, I like it better the old way but this has been hashed and rehased over many a different discussion. I do think you guys have done a great job of getting rid of the really annoying ads and I've gotten used to the others. Plus, I'd say that close to 75% of the ads I see are crafting related. (Even if it's only a very loose link, like with that maghound thingie - they do have crafting mags, so I count that as a crafty link.)

I'm already a FOC and don't think I'd spend extra money to go add-free. Obviously it depends on the pricing, but I don't think you guys could make it cheap enough to where I'd say "Yeah, that's worth it."

That's my $0.02 and I just wanted wanted to throw it out there before this thread gets too snarky and I stop reading it. ;)

Thanks for your feedback!


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: sweets4ever on April 07, 2009 11:27:23 AM
This is one of the few sites that I allow to show ads, even though I do have AdBlocker. I don't click them, since I don't normally do online shopping, but I've allowed them and frankly I hardly notice them anymore. The ads here are unobtrusive compared to most sites, and some of the craft-related ones are even fun!

(And the Google ad font is smaller than the post font, at least on Firefox.)

Good info.  Thanks for replying!


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: antarcticraft on April 07, 2009 12:07:57 PM
I agree - as long as the ads are unobtrusive and don't slow down loading the page, I'm happy with them. I've even clicked on a few!

It seems like the frequency of obnoxious ads has gone WAY down since they first started. Whatever Leah and Sweets are doing with our feedback about obnoxious ads, it's working!


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: IamSusie on April 07, 2009 12:14:27 PM
The worst ad was some movie clip that played over and over and delayed my page loads... ugh... I boycotted that film in protest.  That was several months ago and I haven't seen anything like that since.   :)


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: leah on April 07, 2009 12:46:49 PM
The worst ad was some movie clip that played over and over and delayed my page loads... ugh... I boycotted that film in protest.  That was several months ago and I haven't seen anything like that since.   :)

Oh no! We definitely don't want any ads that just start talking on their own! We try to nab those ones right away.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: Gomerriffic on April 07, 2009 01:30:43 PM
Okay, I've been following the thread for a little bit and though it's been said, I'd like to add my little opinion.

First our mods ROCK and Sweets is indeed the sweetest EVER. Love ya!

Second, I don't really mind the adds, and have even gained a subscription to a great mag because of them and found great products at good prices. They sometimes inspire me to create similar things so you can add inspiration to the mix as well.

I love Craftster for it's community and for the creativity I get from it. I have never been so creative as I have since I ran into this website by accident a few years ago. I'm even a "crackster" pusher. Anytime I talk with other creative friends I push them to go to the website. I'm a FOC and am willing to pay the tiny cost in order to remain so. I'm also okay with the adds for the aforementioned reasons and to keep this place up and running. When it's down I don't know what to do with myself!

So, in conclusion to my wild rambling, thanks for all the hard work and I don't mind the adds because they're mostly craft related and they keep my addiction alive and well! :D


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: mintbamboo on April 20, 2009 09:47:37 PM
It's totally everyone's right to use ad blockers but just keep in mind that if you to this you're preventing us from making a certain amount of money that we need to run this site. :( And you're missing out on some great crafty advertisers. :)

Forgive my naivety, but how does Craftster not make money when users have an ad blocker? Is it because they can't see them and can't click them, as the clicking is what makes money? I'll turn off my ad blocker for Craftster and go on an ad-clicking spree when I visit if it'll help :) I got ad blocker for other websites that had horrible, flashing, drop-down, pop-up, noise-making ads; the ones on Craftster never bothered me in the past.


Title: Re: Google ads moved to new annoying location
Post by: leah on April 21, 2009 11:49:40 AM
Many ad networks pay the website based on how many times the ad is shown and it doesn't matter how many times it was clicked.

Some ads pay out based on how many clicks they get. But while we appreciate your offer to click lots of ads, we don't suggest that. We could actually get in trouble if "click fraud" is detected. But it's a nice thought! :D

Hope this helps. :)