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Topic: "MANLY" baby BOY patterns  (Read 4446 times)
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FarAboveRubies
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« on: September 14, 2005 10:29:26 AM »

I'm looking for "manly" baby BOY patterns.  Most of what I've seen is kind of girly.  Any suggestions?

(I'm an intermediate but brave knitter with a whole lot of pregnant friends and family to knit gifts for.)

p.s. I did a search first and here is a similar, but very old thread:
http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=25374.0
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005 05:37:35 PM »

I have been searching for baby boy patterns to knit for my brand new twin nephews.  I have just finished 2 hoodies knit in blue from the Holiday 2002 Family Circle Easy Knitting.  it was written for a larger size in chunky wool and striped.  I knit it in a smaller gauge and didn't do the stripes.  They turned out much more "manly" than the original pattern looked. 

I have decided that I will just have to take out any "girly" elements in baby patterns I like and knit them in more masculine colors.  (ie take out lacey parts or picot edgings). 
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005 06:21:29 AM »

Thanks!
I agree with you about leaving out the frilly girly elements of pieces to make them less feminine.  It's just that there is such a huge assortment of really cute & original girly patterns and it seems like it's harder to find ideas for boys.  I'll post if I find any uniquely masculine patterns. 

For now I think I'm going to try the Ugg boots and hat
(http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=14033.60). 
Also, you may have seen this one, it's the froggy hat and socks...
http://www.p2designs.com/images/patterns/set-froggy.html
(I consider them more "boy" than girly.)
I would REALLY LOVE to find the pattern for these cowboy booties too:
http://theswitchboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2040&start=0

thanks for replying!  I saw that alot of people viewed this thread, but didn't reply - so they must be looking for BOY patterns too!
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005 07:20:19 AM »

adorable bear slippers:
http://acmoore.com/Projects/yarnproject.asp?ProjectSubCategory_ID=38&ID=631

great booties that could be made to look like ugh boots:
http://www.bernat.com/pattern.php?PID=1040&PHPSESSID=ae32dfc138a11cb0228e1df3360d9ff0

hoodie:
http://www.bernat.com/pattern.php?PID=1189&PHPSESSID=ae32dfc138a11cb0228e1df3360d9ff0

beret:
http://www.knitlist.com/95gift/babyb.htm

zippered jacket:
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEfall03/PATTaccordion.html

cardigan and hat:
http://www.modadea.com/patterns/LM0141.htm

tart hat:
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEwinter03/PATTbabytart.html

cargo pants:
http://knitty.com/ISSUEsummer05/PATTcargo.html

striped hoodie:
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEsummer03/PATTchildHood.html

tube socks:
http://www.y2knit.net/babytube.pdf

square hat:
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEwinter03/PATTpinklady.html
http://www.lionbrand.com/patterns/kbig-hat.html

'suede' hat and boots:
http://www.diynet.com/diy/na_knitting/article/0,2025,DIY_14141_3148151,00.html

ugh boots:
http://www.diynet.com/diy/na_knitting/article/0,2025,DIY_14141_3148516,00.html

striped sweater:
http://www.yarnfwd.com/hailey.html

hooded poncho:
http://freeknittingpatterns.lionbrand.com/patterns/kjif-babyPoncho.html

tux:
http://www.geocities.com/jewedyknit/tuxedo.htm

rambo outfit:
http://members.tripod.com/lwalters1-ivil/lilrambo.html

juggling balls:
http://freeknittingpatterns.lionbrand.com/patterns/kms-jugglingBalls.html

coat:
http://www.knittingonthenet.com/patterns/babycoat.htm

cabled vest:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/7526/babyvest.html

harlequin hat:
http://secure.elann.com/ShowFreePattern.asp?Id=6024

star toy:
http://www.lewiscraft.ca/project01.php?innum=400


Phew! I hope there are at least a few links here you don't already have.

Happy knitting!
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005 07:37:02 AM »

I'm not an experienced knitter but I've been wanting to attempt a "manly" baby boy pattern.  I have a nephew that's ~ 1.5 years old and my sis and BIL would be ticked off if I made him a girly looking sweater or hat.  I saw a post for apple and pumpkin baby hats but they still look girly to me  Undecided   

eternallyeve, thanks for posting the links to a bunch of patterns.  Hopefully, I'll find one that's at my skill level!
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005 07:50:52 AM »

EternallyEve, thanks for the patterns!  It's nice to have them all in one spot!

I am dying to try the little baby tux, though I don't understand the sizing - 1, 2, and 3?? But it would be so cute for a wedding or special event.
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005 07:51:44 AM »

What defines girl or manly??  This is something I've never understood.  I guess if certain details are girly, then there's a reason why there's not a lot of variety in boy patterns.  I just don't get it, myself.  But that's just me.

The simple use of camo and orange yarn can be used to good effect.  I made a baby blanket (more of a carriage blanket or car seat cover, really) for my best friend's baby boy.  His daddy is a real good ol' boy; southern, hunter, big dogs, small women...   Very nice guy, but I always, ALWAYS wonder about how secure a man is who has to make such a show of his masculinity.  Ah well.  Anyway, I made the blanket as sort of a joke because I'd been teasing my friend about the testosterone in her upcoming family.  But after the baby was born, it became her husband's favorite gift.  (Much to Heather's chagrine, I think.)

Somewhere around here was a link to a pattern for a knitted dragon sweater or jacket.  I can't find it, but it was really cute....
Ah hah!  Here it is.  I thought I remembered that it was a Marnie Maclean pattern, and sure enough, here it is:
http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=12627.0
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005 08:08:09 AM »

What defines girl or manly??  This is something I've never understood.  I guess if certain details are girly, then there's a reason why there's not a lot of variety in boy patterns.  I just don't get it, myself.  But that's just me.

The simple use of camo and orange yarn can be used to good effect.  I made a baby blanket (more of a carriage blanket or car seat cover, really) for my best friend's baby boy.  His daddy is a real good ol' boy; southern, hunter, big dogs, small women...   Very nice guy, but I always, ALWAYS wonder about how secure a man is who has to make such a show of his masculinity.  Ah well.  Anyway, I made the blanket as sort of a joke because I'd been teasing my friend about the testosterone in her upcoming family.  But after the baby was born, it became her husband's favorite gift.  (Much to Heather's chagrine, I think.)

Somewhere around here was a link to a pattern for a knitted dragon sweater or jacket.  I can't find it, but it was really cute....
Ah hah!  Here it is.  I thought I remembered that it was a Marnie Maclean pattern, and sure enough, here it is:
http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=12627.0


I'm with you on the girly/manly issue!  Sometimes I find it hard to determine if a wee one is a little boy or a little girl (maybe that's due to the fact that I don't have kids?).  Especially so if the baby is wearing an androgynous-looking outfit.  I'm guilty of saying "Aw, that is such a cute baby!", which sounds lame, but I don't want to offend the parents!  Perhaps that's why some parents feel that they have to dress their little boys in manly outfits?  Perhaps they are tired of dealing with the "Is that a little boy or a little girl?" question  Grin
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005 08:15:01 AM »

Honestly, I don't understand it when parents get offended when you guess the sexo f the baby incorrectly.  I understand that it can be frustrating, but I think parents need to cut other people some slack!
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005 08:30:51 AM »

I have a little girl, and if I liked something that was blue, or had, for instance, little hockey players on it, then that's what Katherine wore.  Still does.  She's going to be three in November.  But I will honestly say that even when she was bald and wearing a little boy's turtleneck with hockey players all over it, jeans and boots, nobody mistook her for a little boy.  I did get some funny "why are you dressing your little girl like a boy" looks, but that's OK.  Kit even had her own little Pittsburgh Penguins onesie when she was a baby.  But, because I dressed her in what I thought was cute and didn't really care whether it was made for a boy or a girl (and it wasn't until she got old enough to choose her own clothes that she got anything pink and frilly), I wouldn't have been offended if someone had asked me her gender.  I probably wouldn't have gotten offended even if she was dressed like a girl.  I just don't understand what there is to be offended about.  Frankly, there is no way of getting around the fact that children ARE basically androgenous in most respects until puberty. 

In any case, and maybe because I'm the mother of a daughter, I don't know, I just don't know where the line is between "too girly" and "manly enough".  And I guess I've been told it doesn't work the same way for girls, who can get away with wearing boyish things but not vice versa.  Ah well, it's all very strange to me.  I've often felt that it's not kind to enforce your own hangups on your children, and that whole "too girly" thing drives me up the wall a little.  Of course, I understand not wanting to put your 2 year old boy in a pink frilly dress.  But some guys take it to the extreme.  The gal I made the camo blanket for... her husband thinks yellow ducks on a blu background are too girly.  Way to give your kid a complex, fellas.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005 08:40:40 AM »

Lothruin, I love your attitude towards the girly/manly issue!  I totally agree. 

I am the oldest of 4 kids, and my sister and I grew up with Voltron and Castle Greyskull, and my brother used to steal my dolls, and we used to steal his GI Joes, and luckily my parents never acted like it was strange if my sister wanted a doll and I wanted a large plastic broadsword.  Toys are toys, clothes are clothes.  Each of us (well, not me) wore the other's hand-me downs, it was no big deal. 

Lots of people are so afraid that if you put a child in a certain kind of clothing, or give them certain toys, that they will grow up to be too girly, or too masculine - and dads aren't the only ones.  I know lots of moms who can be like that, too.  It's just horribly sad to me.
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005 09:00:02 AM »

hi all~ thanks for the links!

God made BOYS for a reason, and GIRLS for a reason.  I like to celebrate that  Grin
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005 09:25:05 AM »

Lothruin,

Right on!  I was holding back on this topic, but now that you've opened it up . . .

I truly believe that when parents focus on what kids wear or other externals, they weaken the gender identity of their children.  (If wearing pink makes me a girl, do I become a boy if I wear green?  or  If I put on a skirt, would I become a girl?) 

And this kind of discussion points to an inequity that no parent should want to influence their daughters or sons.  The conversation about feminine clothing for babies is "girly", but for male clothing, it's "manly."  It's appalling that one word is infantile and one is adult.  Do we really want to give that kind of message?

I raised a son and a daughter.  They are now happy, well-adjusted adults.  They pretty much wore the same clothes (overalls and turtlenecks in the winter, shorts and tees in the summer) and played with the same toys (blocks, dolls, trucks) and did the same things until they got old enough to define some differences for themselves.  (My daughter is more of an athlete, my son is a musician.)

Sure, we may want to put a party dress on a little girl for a special event and our culture makes it tough on a boy who wears pink.  But parents should de-emphasize these issues, not reinforce them. 

LRS
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005 10:08:57 AM »

Too each their own.  I make no personal judgement about wanting to make it obvious whether a child is a boy or a girl, or about celebrating their differences.  I simply do not understand where the line is, nor exactly why in a lot of cases, and think that taking gender roles to an extreme from an early age is damaging to the child. 

For instance, is hockey "boyish" instead of "girly" and am I failing to celebrate my daughter's  femininity by letting her wear hockey shirts?  Or am I celebrating her better by not limiting her gender role by what sports, colors, toys are "better" or "worse" for her to wear or play with?  Am I being too ambiguous by letting her play with my old My Little Ponies AND her father's old GI Joes?  (Like I did when I was young?)  By encouraging her to play hockey (she has white and pink Bauer hockey skates...) AND the piano?  I personally feel that encouraging my daughter to cross traditional gender lines is actually a better celebration of her, and that includes traditional colors and motifs on clothing, etc.

Everyone defines for him or herself what is best for their children.  I have to disagree sometimes, but try not to judge.  However, like I said, extremes are never good, and that is the only problem I have with "manly" or "girly" definitions.  However, in order to best provide you with ideas for "manly" patterns, it would be important to know what YOU consider too girly.  Are pale yellow ducks on a blue background too girly, as my friend's husband thinks?  Where do YOU draw the line?  That way we can better judge which patterns to pass your way.
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005 10:30:13 AM »

hey peeps, I really just wanted some BOY patterns!  Wink

I appreciate people having their own opinions, but I feel that some things get over-analyzed here on craftster.  I'm really not trying to start a gender war.  Can't a girl just request some good "MANLY" boy patterns and get it over with?   Grin

Let me clarify a little:
I'm really looking for some patterns that are stereotypical, traditional, "all-boy" type stuff.  Not just a pattern for a feminine sweater or hat - but if you knit it with "blue" yarn everyone will still think it's cute. 


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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005 10:41:21 AM »

You might like some of the patterns here:
http://www.knittingpatterncentral.com/directory/boys_clothing.php

I'm still not entirely clear which details you consider to make a sweater feminine, as there are really quite a lot of plain ol' sweaters out there, with stripes or certain motifs, where knitting it in pink would make it girly and knitting it in blue would make it a fairly straight forward boy pattern.  Hopefully you can find something you like above.  I like the "Greg's Zippered Vest" but it's for a larger kid.
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2005 11:15:56 AM »

I've got a chess blanket I designed for my friend's little boy on my website. http://www.chroniclesofyarnia.com
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2005 11:41:28 AM »

I, too, was just looking for some manly patterns.  I don't have kids but I have more nephews and nieces than you can shake a stick at.  What I was looking for was some patterns that weren't so "baby-ish" and looked more like miniature versions of "men's" sweater patterns.  So, for me "MANLY" baby BOY patterns translated into that, just like I wouldn't make my brother a "woman's" sweater, I wanted to make his son's "boy's" sweaters.  

So, that said:  thank you all so much for the links!!!  So much to look into !  Must go knit.
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2005 12:09:31 PM »

*shrug*  I really wasn't looking to start any controversy, though it seems I am good at that.  My initial question was only asking for clarification about what was not manly enough, because obviously peoples' definitions about what is manly, girly, and even "traditional" or "all-boy" are different.  I might think the dragon is very boyish, but some people might think it is too cutesy.  Since I don't honestly understand that point of view, I really need someone to spell out for me what they're looking for, or what they are specifically not looking for.  No harm in asking, right? 

I didn't even think of that interpretation of the question, Subloke.  I haven't knit a lot of baby sweaters, but the ones I have knit seem basically exactly the same whether you knit for a boy or girl.  There's no real shaping on most baby sweaters, and it's the shaping that really shows the difference between mens' and womens' sweaters, so I guess I just took it for granted that most basic baby sweater patterns could just as easily be boy as girl, with the simple switch of yarn combinations. 
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2005 02:00:02 PM »

I, too, was just looking for some manly patterns.  I don't have kids but I have more nephews and nieces than you can shake a stick at.  What I was looking for was some patterns that weren't so "baby-ish" and looked more like miniature versions of "men's" sweater patterns.  So, for me "MANLY" baby BOY patterns translated into that, just like I wouldn't make my brother a "woman's" sweater, I wanted to make his son's "boy's" sweaters. 

So, that said:  thank you all so much for the links!!!  So much to look into !  Must go knit.


subloke,
you are awesome!  this is exactly what I had in mind, but didn't know how to convey besides saying "MANLY" - thank you!

*shrug*  I really wasn't looking to start any controversy, though it seems I am good at that.  My initial question was only asking for clarification about what was not manly enough, because obviously peoples' definitions about what is manly, girly, and even "traditional" or "all-boy" are different.  I might think the dragon is very boyish, but some people might think it is too cutesy.  Since I don't honestly understand that point of view, I really need someone to spell out for me what they're looking for, or what they are specifically not looking for.  No harm in asking, right? 

I didn't even think of that interpretation of the question, Subloke.  I haven't knit a lot of baby sweaters, but the ones I have knit seem basically exactly the same whether you knit for a boy or girl.  There's no real shaping on most baby sweaters, and it's the shaping that really shows the difference between mens' and womens' sweaters, so I guess I just took it for granted that most basic baby sweater patterns could just as easily be boy as girl, with the simple switch of yarn combinations. 

lothruin,
thanks for your links -  I did like the dragon Grin
I guess I just assumed people would post what they thought of as "MANLY" and I could see what was out there.  I appreciate your thoughts!
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2005 02:07:20 PM »

I too appreciate the different points of view. 

I hadn't really thought too much about it until I started looking at some of my mom's "layette" patterns.  They were all really lacey and when knit in blue, were considering for boys.  If it was me and I had a baby boy, I would want non-lacey clothing (actually, boy or girl I would want non-lacey clothing) for the baby.  I love the look of a basic hoodie done in strong colors or in neutrals for a baby.  It looks like a mini-dad pattern, you know? 

When I think "girly" baby clothing, there are flowers (like on anouk) or it's a dress or there is a ton of pink or purple, or there is a frill element or a lace pattern.  I realize that is gender stereotyping, but it's there non-the-less.  If I ever had kids of my own, they would be dressed like how I like to dress:  simple, neutral colors with the occasional stronger color thrown in.  No pastels.  No frilly bits. 

Thanks again for all the pattern links everyone! 
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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2005 02:19:39 PM »

Ah hah!  There's the problem.  I don't like frilly or lacy either.  (Ok, that's not true.  I do like frilly and lacy, and I like pink a lot, but I've wasn't intent on making my baby a girly girl, and my husband wanted a daddy's little girl so bad he could hardly breath when the ultrasound showed a little girl, and since I WAS a daddy's little girl, tomboy all the way, I just took it for granted that my daughter would be too, and eventually she'd grow into her fashion sense and her femininity.)  So, most of the baby garments I've looked at are basic, mostly unisex sweaters and stuff.  The things that were girly I didn't even usually LOOK at, so I didn't even take them into consideration.  I was thinking of the majority of baby patterns I've SEEN, and wondering how they could be considered too girly.  Cheesy

So, I may not have mentioned it, but the Happy Baby Cardigan from Red Heart is pretty OK.  It's made with TLC Baby yarn, which is nice and soft.  Even the uber-manly friend's husband thought it was acceptable for his little guy.  The pattern says "Coming Soon" on the website, but it has for about three months or more, so I don't know when they'll have it available, but it's one of those you can find on the free leaflets at Walmart or the craft stores.  A nice basic cardigan and pants set with ribbed cuffs.  It has some stripes, too.  And if my husband were the type of guy who wore cardigans, I could make a giant version of it for him and it wouldn't look babyish at all.  Also, if the colors of the TLC Baby ARE too babyish, it's such a standard pattern that I'm sure you could use any other yarn of the same weight.  Plymouth Dreambaby would probably work really well.

Edited to add:  I still have a copy of this pattern, so if you want to see a picture of it, I can post one. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005 02:34:52 PM by Lothruin » THIS ROCKS   Logged

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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2005 05:49:19 AM »

I love to use non-traditional "Baby" colors too!  I love browns especially.  I think mainly because it's different than what you usually see on babies or at baby showers.  And also I think it does give the baby a "mini-adult" look which is cute.  They look more like a miniature grown up and are adorable!  Does that make sense?

I LOVE NoelleNoodle's pic of her neutral set on this thread:
http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=17136.500
it's just very simple and basic and non-frilly...
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2005 01:03:15 PM »

If you check out my website, I have a nice little boy blanket on there. http://www.chroniclesofyarnia.com

I really dislike pink and blue...but just my luck my youngest daughter LOVES pink. blech.

Have you checked out the little cargo pants on Knitty? Those are really cute too.
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2005 01:31:29 PM »

If you check out my website, I have a nice little boy blanket on there. http://www.chroniclesofyarnia.com

I really dislike pink and blue...but just my luck my youngest daughter LOVES pink. blech.

Have you checked out the little cargo pants on Knitty? Those are really cute too.

I like your site!  And the little knight blanket is very cool!  I'm very "into" browns right now.  I love it!

(*thanks* to eternallyeve for posting the link to knitty's cargo pants on pg.1 of this thread)
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Roe
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2005 04:18:18 PM »

hey peeps, I really just wanted some BOY patterns!  Wink

I appreciate people having their own opinions, but I feel that some things get over-analyzed here on craftster.  I'm really not trying to start a gender war.  Can't a girl just request some good "MANLY" boy patterns and get it over with?   Grin

Let me clarify a little:
I'm really looking for some patterns that are stereotypical, traditional, "all-boy" type stuff.  Not just a pattern for a feminine sweater or hat - but if you knit it with "blue" yarn everyone will still think it's cute. 


Boy is this the truth. Honestly, I posted a question about a pattern and got the third degree on why the designer designed such a thing. Sometimes I wish i had a real person to talk to about knitting. But since i don't i have to hope that what I'm asking isn't going to rub somebody the wrong way and hope i get a ligate answer out of somebody. I don't even think anybody answered my question that I posted because this whole argument came about on why the designer designed it to begin with and my question was about gauge.

I have two boys and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to dress them in boy clothes. Sometimes people just think a little too much about such trivial things.

on that note, i'm happy to have all these links to go through so thanks for posting them.

roe Grin
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NoelleNoodle
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2005 07:59:12 PM »

Neat!  I've been following this thread then saw one of my knits referenced!   Kiss

I think its cool that we can end up discussing things like this - and get patterns.  But I like (good-spirited) overanalysis Wink

I'm a little hypersensitive about early assignment of stereotypical gender roles as well but that's because I've heard in-law uncles giving little male cousins a hard time about their choice of games or movies (that's what GIRLS watch/play with/wear) and it gets my hackles up a bit. 

One of the big reasons I chose to knit that kimono and the booties and hat in that neutral oatmeal yarn was because I wasn't sure if the baby was going to be a boy or a girl at that point and decided that I wanted to knit something that would look great on either.  Even so I was given a bit of a hard time about the kimono design (that baby kimono pattern in the summer interweave knits) being "girly", even with such neutral colored yarn being used, because the baby turned out to be a boy. 

But, these are people with a *very* specific definition of what is for boys and what's for girls.  I think it is unfair to have big hard and fast strict rules for what is and is not ok for their kids to wear or play with because of their sex like some of these relatives seem to.  Not saying anyone here does!  This subject just makes me think of them.  I think staunch attitudes like that end up making people a little defensive of their gender if they happen to like wearing something that might not be considered "feminine."  On the other hand, I've had to defend my girly pinkie poo choices to some women who think that by wearing something typically feminine  I'm conforming to partiarchial concepts of femininity.  It starts to get awfully confusing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with dressing your boy tot in boy tot clothes or girly girl in big girly pink flouncy things if that's what you (or they) like, as long as we enourage the kids that they're a boy or a girl no matter what color they're wearing (or toys they like to play with) I think it's ok Smiley

Most of the simpler baby patterns can be made masculine, feminine, or neutral by changing the yarn.  But I'm a strong believer in using good yarn and a simple pattern Smiley  As a matter of fact, my big wip right now is that devan cardigan from knitty (http://knitty.com/ISSUEspring04/PATTdevan.html) which is modeled by a boy on their page but I'm making it with big girly pink and yellow striping sock yarn for my 1 yo niece.   Cheesy
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LRS
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2005 06:33:15 AM »

NoelleNoodle,

Very well expressed.  One of my hot buttons on this is using a baby word, "girly",  to describe what is appropriate for little girls, but using an adult word, "manly", for little boys.  Let's let them all be babies. 

I've run into a lot of parents, mostly dads, who seem to think that the wrong choice of clothing or toys can ruin thier son's sexual development or identity.  But they don't think wearing jeans or playing with trucks will scar their daughters.  Very odd. 

LRS
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Roe
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2005 09:19:08 AM »

But that's not the point here. FarAboveRubies never said that dressing a boy or a girl a certain way was wrong. All she said is that she wanted a "manly" boy pattern to knit. and by saying that she just meant "boy" not "girl". This is where i see the problem on craftster. by asking for a simple gender specific pattern, everybody has taken it the wrong way and totally turned nothing into something. I just think we shouldn't over analyze something so simple as asking for a gender specific pattern, and maybe attack somebody who really feels that boys shouldn't dress in girl clothes.

Just a thought. I know i get frustrated when I ask a pretty harmless question and in return get attacked on something so far off the subject. It just makes me feel like I can't ask questions. And thats not the point of Craftster. At least thats my opinion. I joined because i don't know anybody who knits and i thought it would be nice to have a support group.

And look what happened here, I am totally over analyzing the point that we shouldn't over analyze. See what happens.

Phooey!

my two cents for what its worth Smiley

Roe
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LRS
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2005 12:11:01 PM »

Roe,

Words mean something.  I don't object to boy clothes and girl clothes.  I do object to using infantile words for girl babies and adult words for boy babies.  A request for a "boyish" pattern would have made sense to me. Asking for a "manly" pattern does not.  Can you imagine someone requesting a "womanly" pattern for a baby girl?

You can read this sort of discussion as attack or you can read it as a conversation about the way various people see the world.

LRS
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subloke
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2005 12:36:00 PM »

On one hand, these discussions are what make Craftster fun, but on the other hand, they do tend to get a bit far off topic... 

I'll jump in for a minute and then i'm back to knitting cargo pants out of leftover camoflage yarn for the baby boys.

While I do believe in the power of words, and I do believe that we should not push children to avoid certain toys or clothing because it isn't "for" their gender, I don't believe that asking for or referring to a pattern for a baby by a gender specific word is going to imprint any sort of stereotype on the intended recipient. 

I wanted "manly" patterns for my nephews.  I have lots of baby-ish patterns and while i am aware that they are babies, i thought it would be cool to have mini-versions of big boy clothing for them.  I wouldn't ask for "womanly" patterns for my niece because it's not a commonly used term to refer to clothing for little girls, and it infers a physical maturity i don't want associated with a 6 year old.  I have seen patterns for all kinds of clothing and accessories we would associate more with women (purses, coats etc) for little girls, and just because the word "womanly" is not applied to them doesn't make them any less "mature" looking or cute or whatever. 

Asking for "manly" clothes was not intended to imply that my nephews will never be allowed to be sensitive or caring or that they must go out hunting or be bullies.  (there should not be anything read into the camoflage yarn i'm using for the cargo pants.  it looks cute.  i had the yarn in my stash). 

I am proud that, on their own, my nephews and nieces seem to be a blend of all aspects of personality, including things that are not stereotypical for their gender.  My oldest nephew asked for, and received, an Easy Bake Oven one Christmas, and the same Christmas he got a hockey stick and gloves.  He played with both equally.  My younger niece was completely obsessed with dinosaurs and trucks for several years, even while she was equally obsessed with her Barbies. 

My friend's twins, a boy and a girl, play together with the same toys.  They play differently with their toys.  The little boy is ALL boy and the little girl is very "prissy" in some ways.  Their parents didn't imprint these attitudes on the kids, they developed them on their own.  They're 3. 
I grew up with a pink room (not my choice) and was dressed in "girl" clothing but nothing overly frilly or girly-girl.  I do not consider myself a "girly" woman, even though I played with dolls and had that pepto-bismal room.  I am watching football right now and taking a break from my knitting.  I am a blend of traits that are generally stereotyped to one gender or the other.  I don't think that being referred to as "girly" as opposed to "womanly" as a child affected me in the slightest.

Really, it will fall to the adults in the lives of these children to not draw focus to the gender stereotypes.  Pushing too hard for children to NOT fall into those stereotypes can be just as much of a strain to kids as pushing them to follow those stereotypes.  Let them be kids!

Whew.  i don't mean to offend anyone or to be argumentative.  i really do respect your opinions and this one is mine. 

back to football and knitting. 
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NoelleNoodle
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2005 05:32:22 PM »

Roe, I'm sorry if you think I was overanalyzing or making anyone have to defend their right to ask for gender-specific clothes patterns.  I don't think anyone's lifestyle choice was being attacked so much as thoughts being expressed about obnoxious relatives that make my little in-law cousins cry and think they're not proper boys because they like playing with pots and pans.

One of my knits was referenced as a good example and I couldn't help pointing out the irony that it actually was considered too girly by some people's standards - because a lot of people have very different definitions of what makes an item masculine or feminine.

I'll reiterate that I think a lot of the simpler patterns can be made masculine, feminine or neutral depending on the color of the yarn.
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Roe
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2005 12:14:51 AM »


NoelleNoodle, I didn't think you in general were. I just think sometimes we get carried away with things and forget about the initial questions. I just think its funny that by asking a simple question it can turn into four pages of debate. And I know I should probably keep my two cents to myself, and probably will from now on! Wink

Subloke- Well said! I wish I could put things as well as you. Oh and please post pics of those cargo pants, they sound way too cute!

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subloke
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2005 09:05:54 AM »

I'm not gonna shake up the pop can again...

I just wanted to tell you that I finished the cargo pants.  Pics of one pair are on my blog here http://yesimadethat.blogspot.com/2005/09/progress-report.html.  I have both pairs done (twins) but only had a pic of one. 

I'll probably post some pics over in completed projects.  It's been a while since I've posted anything!
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