Newbie to try Moebius knitting!?

[twisted5whispers]

So I came across this video here.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnTda7F2V4 And it seems so straight forward that I wanna try it!

I have knitted in the past, but only squares and I always give up because it hurts my hands. So I am wondering if anyone has any pointers? I am mostly a crocheter. I want to make a cowl in the style of the moebius. I want to do a practice one first before I start making them for xmas gifts ( a girl's gotta plan ahead!) I would like to make the practice one out of a chunky yarn to have it work up fast, just so I can get the hang of it. But I'm not sure what size circ. needles to use. And I was thinking about just doing the knit stitch for the whole thing... but I'm not sure how that would look...

Any c&c is greatly appreciated! 

[soozeq]

Yes, with something worked in the round you can just knit all the stitches, though the edges can curl up. With a mobius you're going to be working from the middle out and with the twist some of the cowl will show as knits and some as purls. Cat says to use a 47" needle, but I've done them on 36" ones. I would suggest using a larger size than normal for the yarn, so if you're using a worsted weight, knit it on a 10 or 10½ needle.

When you were knitting before it probably hurt your hands because you were either holding the yarn or needles too tight, or twisting the stitches which made them hard to work into, not because they were squares. Since you crochet you probably 'grabbed' the yarn the same way you would in crocheting and that wraps it backward on the needle from standard knitting. When you knit into the front leg on the next row it makes the sts twist and they're tighter. You can still wrap the yarn the same way, just knit into the leg closest to the tip of the needle and the sts will be straight and it won't be so hard to knit. So try that on some practice pieces and see if it makes it easier for you.

[Alexus1325]

That is FASCINATING! So let me get this straight: after the first complete round of two passes, you need to purl for a complete round, then knit a complete round, etc, or else you get one half all knitted and one half purled??? I'm assuming at the join, you can see the switch if you do all knit. Where do the finished stitches go, though? Between the halves of cable? This is so wacky...

For myself, I'd probably use a 6mm (US 10) for a super bulky yarn, just because that's what I'm comfortable with, and I find a 4.5mm (US 7) ok for both worsted and chunky yarns.

*EDIT* Soozeq, thank you!

[soozeq]

IMO a 10/6mm is too small a needle for a super bulky yarn. Use a 13 or 15 (9 or 10mm) or the sts will be too dense and it may be harder to knit, for a cowl or scarf you need drape, not stiffness.

I think of the the round being complete when you come around the the stitch marker on the needle again, not when it's on the cord below them. So if you knit all rounds, you'll get half stockinette, half reverse stockinette. If you knit one round and purl another you still have garter stitch, just like regular knitting in the round. And yep the stitch 'push away' between the coil of the cord.

[twisted5whispers]

Thank you! I really appreciate the feedback. I will have time to try again tomorrow. I did the cast on and then about half of a round and stopped because it was hard to knit. I got 8mm 36in needles and I am using 5-bulky yarn. I couldnt find longer cords anywhere in the stores and I don't really wanna order online right now... When I was knitting on this piece it felt like the actual needles didn't have enough room to move. I cast on I don't even know how many stitches, I just cast on till the cables were full. I am a wee bit impatient and didn't want to have to frog anything... But I think I may go back and frog it and try with few cast on.
I will take the advice on how to hold my yarn and what to do with the needles soozeq! I wish I knew someone who knitted who could help me in person. Everyone I know only crochets..
I will update as soon as I get an hour to try again! 

[ThreadOrYarn]

don't cast on so many - if you cast on 50, you'll be knitting on 100 stitches after you finish the moebius cast-on. If the needle is full when you cast-on, you won't have enough space to pick up the rest of the stitches to work the moebius. (and if it's that full, you really have a hard time getting a good idea of how big it'll be)

[soozeq]

8mm needles are a little small for bulky yarn, so that may be why it's a little hard to knit. Though the first round or two is usually a bit tight with any yarn/needle combination. Fewer stitches might be a good idea, you end up with a lot more than you think with this method.

[twisted5whispers]

I want to thank you all again! I went back and cast on only 50 ish stitches( I must have cast on about 100 or more the first time) and I used your method and I looked up a few different ways to hold the yarn, I am doing it continental because it is how I feel most comfortable since I have been crocheting for years.

It works up very fast now. I have done about 4 total rounds so 8 half rounds and my hands are learning that it is not crochet lol

I will post a pic when I am finished.

One more question... Does anyone know a good way to gauge how many to cast on to achieve a certain size? I want to make cowls for xmas gifts. But I'm not sure if the 50 I cast on will be enough. Although I may keep the moebius when I am done just to show it off... 

Thanks againn!

[soozeq]

To figure out how many to cast on, you need to know how many sts per inch you get with the yarn and needles, and multiply that by how big around you want it. So if you get 3 sts per inch with the bulky yarn, and you want the scarf 40" around you would cast on 120 sts. Not half, because that would be too short.

[twisted5whispers]

Thank you very much soozeq! This would work the same way if i switched to smaller needles and smaller yarn correct? I was thinking last night... What if I made coffee cup cozies that are moebius? How cool would that be?! Except I think I would want to all knit on the outside.. So if I wanted that I would knit for the first half then purl for the second right?

I really appreciate the timely responses too... it has kept me motivated because I didn't have enough time to get frustrated... 

[ThreadOrYarn]

I admit I haven't done a lot of moebius knitting, but I'm not sure how you'd do this style of moebius knitting (knitting from the center out) for something that's a lot smaller than the circular needles. You might have to knit it flat then sew the short ends together (with a half twist to create the moebius).

[twisted5whispers]

I found an old pair of circular needles that are smaller but still have a long cord and the cord is too big to try and do a small amount of stitches on for the coffee sleeve. So I need to go buy a smaller pair and try again. 

[soozeq]

Thank you very much soozeq! This would work the same way if i switched to smaller needles and smaller yarn correct? I was thinking last night... What if I made coffee cup cozies that are moebius? How cool would that be?! Except I think I would want to all knit on the outside.. So if I wanted that I would knit for the first half then purl for the second right?

Yes, you would knit half the sts and purl the other half. Though you would have to keep the twist in the same spot, maybe tack it down so it doesn't move.

I'm with the others, I'm not sure you could knit something that small center out, but it's worth a shot. You might have to use 2 needles to make it work.

[twisted5whispers]

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I really appreciate all the help you have given me. I finished 2 moebius cowls! Actually I made 3. The first one was the tester to see how I liked it and is super small and I have no clue what I will do with it!

Here is the link over to the finished cowl's I made! http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=412524.0

Again I thank you for the help! 

[soozeq]

You mentiioned the jog when changing from a knit row to a purl round - that can be minimized. Slip the first stitch of the round, work around and do that slip stitch at the end of round. Slip the next stitch, change stitches and work the slip stitch at the end. It moves the beg of round over, but it really won't matter in something like this. I use this for doing garter stitch in the round and it's much less obvious.

I think the green cowl is more that variegated yarn doesn't look that great in garter stitch, stockinette might work better with it.