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Topic: sl2 k psso vs. sl2 knitwise k1 psso?  (Read 7990 times)
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GathGreine
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« on: November 14, 2010 09:39:38 PM »

Before I start, I think I'm doing this correctly.  But if not, please let me know if I'm committing a forum gaffe! : ) I did go through the FAQ's about using this forum and didn't want to be a pain in the butt, so I really tried to find the answers on my own, but I think I really need another knitter to clarify! 

So, I'm not a new knitter.  But I've never done a lace pattern, and I rarely knit flat since I usually knit on dpn's making miniature toys and stuff.  I love tiny things ;}

But for Christmas I want to make my sister Grace Mcewen's 'Victorian Rose Scarf'. 
http://www.knitpicks.com/cfpatterns/pattern_display.cfm?ID=10225220

First of all, the pattern says, "The instructions are for the odd rows only--on the even rows knit or purl as they appear. The yarn overs will be purled". 

The first row is as follows:

R1: p1, k1, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k1, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k1, p1 (15st)

So obviously, the knits and yo's will be purled, and the purls will be knit.  But what about the sl2 k psso?

The thing that confuses me about this is that there are two versions of this stitch? (the second one, obviously, isn't used until later) In the abbreviations it says:

sl2 k pssoslip 2 stitches to right needle, knit next stitch on left needle, pass two slipped stitches over the last knitted stitch.

sl2 knitwise k1 pssoslip 2 stitches knit wise onto right needle, knit next stitch on left needle, pass two slipped stitches over the last knitted stitch.

So since the second one specifies knitwise, does that mean that the other one would be slipped purlwise?

And if so, does that change whether you knit or purl it on the next row?  Or since you knit 1 stitch in the middle of that bit, does that mean that regardless, you purl it on the other side?

At this point I'm thinking that the second row will look like this:

R1: p1, k1, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k1, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k1, p1 (15st)
R2: k1, p1, k1, p1,     p1,       p1, k1, p1, k1, p1,      p1,       p1, k1, p1, k1 (15st)


If that's right, then I'm pretty sure that I can figure out the rest of the pattern just fine. 

Sorry this was so long-winded!  And thank you guys so much for any help at all!! : )

-Jess
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soozeq
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2010 08:52:52 AM »

The sl2kp is a knit st on the RS rows, so it'll be purled on the WS rows. Even when not specifically spelled out to slip knitwise, all decs are slipped that way. If you slip purlwise it twists the stitch. So slip the 2 sts as if to k2tog, k the next one and pass the 2 sts over tog.
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sue
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010 10:59:25 AM »

Thank you!

So to clarify, the only difference between them is that, when it says sl2 k psso, you slip one, then the other.  And when it says sl2 knitwise k1 psso, you slip them knitwise both at once.

And they both get purled on the WS.

Well that was simple!  I guess I was underestimating the subtlety of the knit stitch!  Cheesy 
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soozeq
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010 11:03:30 AM »

There is no difference in them, it's just that 'knitwise' was left out of one of the definitions. You always slip both as if to k2tog. I don't know why it was written this way.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010 11:04:30 AM by soozeq » THIS ROCKS   Logged

sue
GathGreine
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010 11:42:12 AM »

Yeah it's misleading because for example, this row uses "both"  Huh

R13: p1, sl2 k psso, k4, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k3, sl2 knitwise k1 psso, k3, p1, yo, sl2 k psso, yo, p1, k1, p1

But I've been working on it a little, and it seems to be coming out just fine.

Thanks again : )
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"It's neat and it's sweet.  It's a ding-dong treat.  Knittin' socks for little feet.  Just sittin' with yer knittin' all day long!"
Tephra
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010 12:11:59 PM »

sl2 k pssoslip 2 stitches to right needle, knit next stitch on left needle, pass two slipped stitches over the last knitted stitch.

sl2 knitwise k1 pssoslip 2 stitches knit wise onto right needle, knit next stitch on left needle, pass two slipped stitches over the last knitted stitch.

The first one, slip 2 together knitwise. In the finished decrease the middle stitch is on top, followed by the right and then the left on the bottom.

The second one, slip 2 knitwise one at a time. In the finished decrease the right stitch is on top, followed by the middle and then the left on the bottom.

The first decrease has no lean since the middle is on top, the second leans to the left since the right is on top and mirrors a k3tog better than the more common left leaning double decrease, sk2p (sl1, k2tog, psso) which puts the right on top, the left in the middle and the middle on the bottom.
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soozeq
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010 04:06:36 PM »

Quote
The second one, slip 2 knitwise one at a time. In the finished decrease the right stitch is on top, followed by the middle and then the left on the bottom.

I don't think so, usually that would be written as slip 1, k2tog, psso or sk2p. I believe it's just a typo in the pattern and they're both the same decrease, just written differently. I've never seen a double decrease where you slip the 2 sts separately; a sssk would be though.

Paaramii909, see if you can contact the designer and ask.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010 04:09:09 PM by soozeq » THIS ROCKS   Logged

sue
Tephra
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010 04:20:22 PM »

Quote
The second one, slip 2 knitwise one at a time. In the finished decrease the right stitch is on top, followed by the middle and then the left on the bottom.

I don't think so, usually that would be written as slip 1, k2tog, psso or sk2p. I believe it's just a typo in the pattern and they're both the same decrease, just written differently. I've never seen a double decrease where you slip the 2 sts separately; a sssk would be though.

Paaramii909, see if you can contact the designer and ask.

It's just an older way of doing what amounts to an sssk, the same way that sl1, k1, psso is an older way of doing ssk. For tight knitters an sssk can be difficult so slipping two then knitting and passing over is less hassle.

I'm knitting a pattern right now that uses "sl1, k1, psso" and I pasted the whole thing into Word and did a find and replace to change them all to ssk, it's so much easier to deal with written patterns. Of course, when I first came back to knitting after my twenty year extended hiatus I found myself going "What in the world is an SSK?!" since I was used to the older pattern notation.

I'm now curious at to what the designer intended.
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soozeq
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010 09:27:09 PM »

Yep, I learned on old patterns that used sl k psso too. But the definitions seemed to be exactly the same and there's no mention of slipping them separately or together, so figured maybe one was just updated to add 'knitwise' and should have replaced the other, but wasn't.
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sue
GathGreine
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010 10:44:27 PM »

Haha!  Thank you, both!  : )  I think I will contact the designer just to settle the matter, and I'll let you guys know what it was supposed to be.  O.o  I'm super curious to see what she meant!  (I treat these things like puzzles to be cracked--haha)  My sister is shaking her head saying, 'Why don't you just knit it with the same stitch and no one will notice!?"  And I'm like, "But I'll never know why she wrote it like that!!"  But yeah, I really appreciate the help!  Cheesy
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GathGreine
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010 10:27:47 AM »

So I got an email back from Grace Mcewen : )  She was really nice!

It turns out that it's supposed to be assumed that sl2 k1 psso uses a purlwise slip.  I had originally thought that was probably how you did it, but was unsure because I was always taught that if the stitch/pattern doesn't specify, you always slip knitwise.

Thus the redundancy thing.. Then last night I was surfing around in between our emails and found "The Knitting Fiend" blog where the writer states that even though most people think that you should always slip knitwise, it's the other way around.  Here's the link for anyone interested.

http://www.thedietdiary.com/blog/lucia/588

But anyways!  The only difference between the two is how you slip the stitches. : )

Thank you soozeq and Tephra! : )
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"It's neat and it's sweet.  It's a ding-dong treat.  Knittin' socks for little feet.  Just sittin' with yer knittin' all day long!"
Tephra
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2010 11:22:25 AM »

Interesting, I was taught that unless it's a decrease, slip purlwise, so a purlwise slip in a decrease is a new one. So the result is a twisted left leaning double decrease, don't see many of those out there.
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soozeq
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2010 08:59:19 PM »

The entry at the Knitting Fiend site discusses slipping a stitch in general. She goes on to say "The most common reason to slip knitwise is to work an ssk type decrease"

So it's generally slip purlwise except for a decrease or if the pattern says different. The definitions of the decs (ssk/skp, s2kp, sk2p) should usually specify to slip knitwise.

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sue
Sandy Grell
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2012 12:46:39 PM »

I found you guys working on the same pattern I am and I still am not sure if I should sl2 k psso, slip purlwise both together or one at a time?  And then do I psso both together also, or one at a time?
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soozeq
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2012 06:54:37 PM »

When the dec starts out as slip 2, slip them together as if to k2tog and pass them over together too.
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sue
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