A Crafts Community For Craft Ideas & DIY Projects - Craftster.org
Help | About | Contact | Press | Advertise | Terms | Site Map
Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Random Tip: When you post a project, remember that you can always click the Modify button to edit the post and add additional information.
Total Members: 302,543
Currently Running With Scissors:
633 Guests and 12 Users
Home Craftster Community Crafting Articles Craft Tutorials My Craftster Crafting Calendar City Guides Craft Shop


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]
Jump to page:
  Show Images Only     Send this topic  |  Print  |  Bookmark  
Topic: NY Times opinion article on knitting  (Read 2219 times)
Tags for this thread:  Add new tag
Share the love... Pin it Submit to reddit add to Wists
1+
 
gloriana
« on: March 30, 2005 08:18:56 AM »

Hey y'all - here's a link to a new article in the NY Times on knitting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/opinion/30wed3.html?incamp=article_popular_4

Debbie Stoller is quoted in it, of course.  I was particularly intrigued by the "Stitch 'n Ride" train cars in Oakland!
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Check out my knitblog - A Mingled Yarn
http://amingledyarn.wordpress.com
starlings
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2005 08:48:43 AM »

Articles like this leave me ambivalent. On the one hand, I think it's great that knitting is so popular - it's great to have so many people to talk to about it, the selection and availability of yarn has exploded.

I'm glad that in the time I've knitted, no one like the author of this piece has expressed their narrowminded and ageist attitude to me about it. It would have pissed me off. In fact, the author's apparent belief that an activity is only as cool or interesting as the people who engage in it is nearly as offensive to me as sexism.

As for knitting as a feminist symbol, "taking back the needles", I have yet to be convinced that the phrase has any real social meaning. Knitting is an activity that presumes a certain amount of leisure time (and in the case of the luxury yarn sub-craze, disposable income). I think this explains why it is most common among women of univeristy age and women of retirement age. The major difficulties facing women in our society have more to do with economic and legal rights than the devaluation of the recreational needlework most of them no longer engage in.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
EmilyFlew
Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Offline Offline

Posts: 3223
Joined: 21-Nov-2003

..sweets4ever is so rad..


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2005 09:20:37 AM »

I've been trying to compose a good reply to you starlings, but I mostly just wanted to say that you make some very good points and have given me food for thought.

And relating to the article (and to the idea of knitting as a middle class activity for people with the time and disposable income) I was really excited about the idea of movie screenings with the lights on in that article. That would be so much fun!
THIS ROCKS   Logged

technocutie, handmade iPod cases and felt accoutrements
thoughts and days.

I <3 the mod squad ladies!
starlings
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005 09:59:37 AM »

I was really excited about the idea of movie screenings with the lights on in that article. That would be so much fun!
Me too! Smiley

THIS ROCKS   Logged
lisascenic
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2005 10:04:18 AM »

The article read like a not very well researched book report, boiling things down to overly-simplified "facts."  Just because this author didn't appreciate her grandmother's knitting, then all knitting prior to last week was for uncool grannies?  I don't think so!

And as far as the Oakland knitting train goes, I believe that that was a one-time event.  Amtrak offered a discount rate to the Stitches West Conference this year, but as far as I know there are no regular Knitting Trains.  One wonders how this would work....  Woud you have to open your bag, and show the conductor your project before you got on the train?  Would crocheters be told to sit in another car?

I find these "knitting is suddenly cool" articles that spring up from time to time mildly exasperating.  I've been knitting for years. I do it because it challenges me mentally, and creatively.  I like being able to wear garments that exist only in my mind. I like being able to give hand made gifts.  But am I doing it in an attempt to be cool?  NO FREAKIN' WAY!  
THIS ROCKS   Logged

ultraviolet
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005 10:17:57 AM »

Exactly, lisascenic! And the author seems to feel obligated to learn to knit because it's the trendy thing to do, despite her negative feelings towards it. I mean geez - it's not for everyone! If you're not interested in it, then don't do it.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

http://blog.threegoodrats.com

"Beware the lustful fires that burn in a librarian's heart. They can rage beyond all control."
crabby
Tall, crabby, crafty.
Offline Offline

Posts: 210
Joined: 17-Jan-2005

This dog rules


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005 10:24:34 AM »

Excellent comments everyone.  I don't have much to add, except to say that I am irritated by the author's "Well, now it's cool to knit so I might as well give it a try" tone.  I am new to knitting, and I have to admit that I have felt sheepish at times because (I thought that) those around me suspected that I was only knitting because "everyone else is doing it."  Give me a break!  And a little bit of credit!  I have been crafty my whole life, and honestly, knitting never, ever crossed my mind until it became so popular.  No one around me ever knit, so I just never thought about it until the new craze started.  I tried it, I love it.  Simple.  If I wanted to be cool I'd be spending less time and money on grad school and more time and money on being a consumer of pop culture.  But wait!  Knitting IS pop culture!  GAAAAHHHH!   Wink
THIS ROCKS   Logged

fancypantsayla
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2005 10:46:03 AM »

What about the  boys who knit?  There is no mention of them here, the article only focuses on the domesticity issue to feminists, which in itself is quite sexist and shortsighted.  I KNOW there are knitting boys out there, personally I only know a few but there are more on this site, too.  They're the ones who should be bummed by this editorial, they aren't even acknowledged.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
starlings
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005 10:51:44 AM »

I am new to knitting, and I have to admit that I have felt sheepish at times because (I thought that) those around me suspected that I was only knitting because "everyone else is doing it."  Give me a break!  And a little bit of credit! 

Good for you for taking this position. Learning a new skill is always a good thing, regardless of what gave you the idea to do it.

So do you think that someday soon we'll see people rolling their eyes at the sight of a knitter and saying "oh, knitting, it's so OVER...I gave that up AGES ago..."
THIS ROCKS   Logged
crabby
Tall, crabby, crafty.
Offline Offline

Posts: 210
Joined: 17-Jan-2005

This dog rules


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005 04:44:52 PM »

Good for you for taking this position. Learning a new skill is always a good thing, regardless of what gave you the idea to do it.

Thanks - I agree!  I want to learn crochet, too, becuase for some stuff (like flowers and edging) it just works better.  I welcome new skills!  I gobble them up!

So do you think that someday soon we'll see people rolling their eyes at the sight of a knitter and saying "oh, knitting, it's so OVER...I gave that up AGES ago..."

I already see ponchos on their way out, despite the recent Martha incident, so I think that some knitters will give it up once they don't have "cool" stuff to knit. The article did do an adequate job of documenting how knitting popularity waxes and wanes with time (as with all things, I guess).

But, for some reason I suspect that knitting will stick with a lot of people for a long time.  It really seems to be a satisfying, relaxing, fun hobby for a TON of people, and since you can do it in the privacy of your own home, it's not subject to the same kind of peer scrutiny as what you happen to be wearing.  And, judging by the huge variety in age, employment, income, and interests that I see from various SnB groups in my area, knitting isn't simply a pop culture, youth-inspired trend.  It's really taken hold over all kinds of groups of women (and men  Wink). 
THIS ROCKS   Logged

grusinskaya
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005 07:03:44 PM »

I agree with lisascenic; this article was poorly written & seemed shoddily researched. Although I will admit that some of the trivia included in the article was interesting (I didn't know about the lighted movie showings; that's actually a pretty good idea).

I'm not sure if all of these newbie knitters will stick with the craft. I know that the recent popularity of the craft has definitely created legions of dedicated new knitters, but there are also quite a few people who learned simply to make a few scarves. My aunt for example, threw herself at the craft two years ago and made a few garter-stitched fun fur scarves. She attempted to make a poncho, but soon grew bored and hasn't picked up the needles since.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
gloriana
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2005 07:55:51 PM »

Wow, you all raised some great, and very valid, points.  I wasn't thinking about it that analytically when I read it this morning, honestly.  I have to say that I too worry about the characterization of knitting as a "fad" and hope that it won't suddenly decline in popularity, as the swing dance craze did.  This worry is out of pure self-interest - I plan to keep knitting for as long as I enjoy it (which I suspect will be a long time) and want to continue to have the amazing variety and selection that currently exists.

I think that Debbie Stoller's point about reclaiming knitting as feminist is valid (although rather inadequately represented in this piece) - as Alice Walker said in "In Search of Our Mother's Gardens," domestic creations and activities (such as gardening, cooking, quilting, and knitting) are art forms that need to be recognized, and celebrated, rather than denigrated as "merely" domestic (and hence not valuable).
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Check out my knitblog - A Mingled Yarn
http://amingledyarn.wordpress.com
lisascenic
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005 09:12:26 PM »

I found the book she references, No Idle Hands, is pretty interesting.  But I'm aslo a huge geek, and love social history.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

kristiface
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2005 06:57:38 AM »

I had posted over on another board about this earlier, but lisascenic pointed me to this one. 

I will admit that I took up knitting because the patterns were much cooler than the crochet patterns I found.  But hey, if I like a sweater, I wanna be able to make it! 

I found her article not only poorly researched (it was an op/ed piece, so she just has to say what she wants in well- structured sentence), but also embarrassingly ignorant of the things she was saying.  If, as she said, knitting gained popularity as an anti- feminist movement-- if that's what it really MEANS-- then why was she suddenly so happy to jump on that bandwagon?  That doesn't mean knitting makes you "cool".  It means knitting makes you opposed to the feminist movement and feminism in general. 

I suspect that the trends have less to do with social politics than they do with generational ebb and flow.  Seems to me that most of the people I know who've knitted for a long time learned it from parents or grandparents growing up.  Now, they're adults and can afford more yarn, classes, knitting groups, etc.   


I have to say that I too worry about the characterization of knitting as a "fad" and hope that it won't suddenly decline in popularity, as the swing dance craze did. This worry is out of pure self-interest - I plan to keep knitting for as long as I enjoy it (which I suspect will be a long time) and want to continue to have the amazing variety and selection that currently exists.

I suspect! that we'll still be able to find fantastic yarn if knitting becomes less "cool"... and if we're lucky, maybe the prices will even go down a bit Wink   

That or we should all stack up Wink
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Joy is but the sign that creative emotion is fulfilling its purpose.
-- Charles Du Bos
starlings
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2005 07:45:41 AM »

I suspect that the trends have less to do with social politics than they do with generational ebb and flow.  Seems to me that most of the people I know who've knitted for a long time learned it from parents or grandparents growing up.  Now, they're adults and can afford more yarn, classes, knitting groups, etc.   

That's a really good point.

You know, one reason that knitting may not have been as popular in the 80s is the scale of the garments. Sweaters were popular, but they were also HUGE. It was impossible to imagine wearing anything that wasn't oversized. (I have an VK from the period in which the garment measurements for the smallest size are consistently over 40").

 I made some attempts at knitting then, but yarn was relatively more expensive and you needed tons of it and tons of time to make a garment then considered "normal" in size. I'd say that now you'd easily use 1/3 less yarn in an average sweater.

Maybe the 80s revival will be the death of knitting. But I'll bet the yarn manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon!
Classic Elite sure did last time around. I wonder what it would have cost to knit up this baby:
THIS ROCKS   Logged
GloryB
Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Offline Offline

Posts: 1280
Joined: 24-Sep-2004

I have a sewing machine, and I know how to use it


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2005 08:23:32 AM »

I agree, that is a poorly written article.  Oh, I'm sure there are some knitters out there that are just knitting because it's the hip thing to do.  Personally, I started knitting when I was a teenager, now I'm in my late 50's.  I knit because I like to. I'm not trying to make any kind of statement.  Todays new knitters that enjoy knitting for the sake knitting, will be knitting well into their golden years too.  And they too will see the fad come and go.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
spaz_muse
Offline Offline

Posts: 532
Joined: 06-Feb-2004

Starving Artist Extraordinaire


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2005 08:51:43 AM »

I'm always sort of amused by articles like this just because of my presonal experience.  I had no idea knitting was on any sort of up or down swing when I learned last May (from a male stagehand who'd learned in Canada a few years before that: he taught me how to cast on, make the knit stitch, and change color in the same span of time it took him to roll and smoke a cigarette).  Then I started noticing all this stuff and all this "knit is the new black" or whatever comments.  But anyway, I'm weirded out by how she's written the article.  No mention of men who knit.  She's aware of Cameron Diaz and Hilary Swank but not Russell Crowe (ok, that was a publicity stunt maybe, but still...)  And then she says she'll try again just because it's hip but turns right around and says she's doing it for the self-improvement?  Weird.  And she really doesn't give a reason why it's "trendy" other than to "reclaim women's work."  Hardly (although I'm sure there are those who are knitting for just that reason).  I DIY because I like to and I like creating things that are unique (or sometimes because I want something I saw and know I can make it cheaper and better).  Ok.  I guess in the end, I haven't said anything new, but I enjoyed responding.

Now what I REALLY wish she'd mentioned in the article: the name of that knitting book Hollywood put out in the 30s.  I'd LOVE to get my hands on that.  Anyone happen to know?  Or any suggestions how I'd google that? 
THIS ROCKS   Logged

"These are hard times for dreamers" - porn store manager, "Amelie"
lisascenic
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2005 09:21:43 AM »

I'm a bit dubious about there being one particular book that Hollywood put out in the 1930's.  There were a number of pattern booklets with minor stars on the covers, as well as pattern booklets that made promises like "knit the clothes the stars are wearing."  But since this article seems to be cribbing from a book I've read twice (and recently), I think this is about as "true" as the Oakland Knitting Trains.

I don't own "No Idle Hands."  But if I did, I would check the bibiliography. 

In any case, those garments were knit on teeny-tiny needles, and had lots of shaping.  I doubt any of us would really enjoy knitting a 1930's style suit!
THIS ROCKS   Logged

spaz_muse
Offline Offline

Posts: 532
Joined: 06-Feb-2004

Starving Artist Extraordinaire


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2005 11:02:58 AM »

Good to know!  I'll check that book out!  But I'm thinking you're right - I'd probably do better to just find a vintage-y pattern now.  Yarn substitution would be easier, too, now that I think about it....
THIS ROCKS   Logged

"These are hard times for dreamers" - porn store manager, "Amelie"
tigerlounge2000
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2005 11:04:40 AM »

This seems like something she agreed to write, then forgot about till two hours before deadline.  If you are going to write about knitting this late in the game, you can't trot out "Oh, Wow, celebrities love to knit!  It gives them something to do on set!  It's retro-feminist!  There's this really cool lady Debbie Stoller!  Wow!"  I was actually excited to see the article, because it's the NYT, and they usually have a slightly more relevant takes on these kind of things.

I never understand why journalists don't bring up the fact that a lot of people knit and sew because the economy has gone to h***, stores stock badly made rubbish, and if you want to look amazing you kind of have to take it into your own (creative) hands.  I knit because I can buy $25 worth of Lambs Pride, a $6 VK and make something that looks like it cost $200.  I can't buy a sweater that costs that much!

Bad, lazy, Journalist!
THIS ROCKS   Logged
mizuiro
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2005 04:57:25 PM »

It read like a Livejournal post written on a coffee break.  She's kind of tossing knitting out as just another trend to follow.  Along with everyone else, I too get annoyed at these everything-old-is-new-again type of op/ed pieces, but I try not to give them much credit.  I doubt anyone is going to be turned on or off the craft by that little bit of fluff.

Some people do like to create because they enjoy the act of creation.  I think we should keep that spirit alive in such an art-poor society, where people take to doing something because someone told them it was cool.

*sits and thinks a few minutes*

Oh, I didn't dig her attitude to her grandma's oversized hats.  Anything your grammie makes should be treasured!  Unless you have one of those mean grandmothers...hehe .  That's another reason I very rarely make things for other people.  They aren't going to appreciate it anyway.  I only make things for other artisans that will enjoy them.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005 05:09:05 PM by mizuiro » THIS ROCKS   Logged

Got Blog?  So do I:  http://yeahiknit.blogspot.com/
spaz_muse
Offline Offline

Posts: 532
Joined: 06-Feb-2004

Starving Artist Extraordinaire


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2005 05:12:28 AM »

Oh, I didn't dig her attitude to her grandma's oversized hats.  Anything your grammie makes should be treasured!  Unless you have one of those mean grandmothers...hehe .  That's another reason I very rarely make things for other people.  They aren't going to appreciate it anyway.  I only make things for other artisans that will enjoy them.

THAT'S the other thing I didn't like about the article.  Thanks for reminding me.  So you got some oversized hats.  Appreciate that she took the time to make them at all.  She probably didn't mean for them to be oversized. Maybe she figured it would give growing room and all those hours wouldn't be worn for one season then thrown in a box never to be used (or even seen) again. 
THIS ROCKS   Logged

"These are hard times for dreamers" - porn store manager, "Amelie"
meeja
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2005 07:33:18 AM »


We've got a game going here now. My boyf looks out for random articles about knitting (which all begin Hey! guess whats suddenly fashionable? knitting!) and I guess which celebrities they link to knitting just because they were once seen with needles in their hands.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
lisascenic
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2005 08:03:04 AM »

Once again, I find out that I've been talking crap.  Turns out there really are knitting trains in the SF Bay Area:

 http://www.capitolcorridor.org/

And, of course I was totally forgetting about the London Groups, Cast Off:
http://www.castoff.info/albums/02circle_line/index.asp



Meeja -- who is on the list? 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2005 12:26:35 PM by lisascenic » THIS ROCKS   Logged

apb3000
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2005 05:02:17 PM »

So do you think that someday soon we'll see people rolling their eyes at the sight of a knitter and saying "oh, knitting, it's so OVER...I gave that up AGES ago..."

TIME OUT NEW YORK ACTUALLY DID THIS! Quilting is apparently the new knitting. In a piece about the rise of NYC quilting guilds, they did, in fact, say that the "knitting trend" is "tired," and that sewing (esp. quilting) is the hot new craft. I called my quilter mom - she was delighted to be so hip, and has never had the patience to learn knitting.

Starlings, you're right that the last thing we should be worrying about is being "oppressed" because we enjoy a hobby that has certain cultural connotations! When I knit on the subway, I think about whether or not I could defend myself against a would-be attacker with my knitting needles, rather than whether I seem trendy or weird.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

never stopping never sleeping
staralee
l'etoile
Offline Offline

Posts: 264
Joined: 13-Nov-2004

mmmm...koolaid yarn...


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2005 07:21:57 PM »

My husband and I were talking about the trendiness of knitting; he seemed to think that after the trendiness is over yarn stores will close down or at least lose money...because a decrease in popularity would mean a decrease in knitters. I disagreed...because knitting (and craftiness, in general) is a lifetime obsession! Sure, I might vacillate between knitting, sewing, scrapbooking (which, despite waning 'trendiness' is still BIG business) but I'm never going to just give it up!  I did conceed that many people who pick it up, if just doing it out of trendiness, might give it up...but that's like with any hobby, it just won't "take" for some people.
As for 'taking back knitting' as a feminist (or anit-feminist) movement...well, I've read lots of Debbie Stollar's  projects (Bust mag and the book) and she's in line with most 3rd wave feminists who think that women originally threw down domestic activities to become 'equal' to men, but that in discarding 'women's work', they were saying that "women's work" isn't as valuable as traditionally 'men's work'...and now is the time to correct that inequality and restore value to ALL work, despite gender stereotypes..
But of course, I don't knit for feminist reasons--I knit because I like to! I just like that, as a woman, because of past feminists, i have the choice to do 'domestic' things,  or to manage a studio, or to graduate (at the top of my class) with a degree in something ridiculously useless (French)--all things that I chose and things I'm proud of.
*end rant Wink*
THIS ROCKS   Logged
carecare
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2005 07:47:39 PM »

I just felt this article was lazy, the topic was tired, and I expect a little more from the Times.

She didn't push the discussion forward at all, just relying on the same trite references and images. (Does anyone *really* start knitting because Cameron Diaz does? C'mon.). It read like something that would have been written maybe three or four years ago. For heaven's sake, *everyone* has heard of the knitting "trend" by now. But she trotted it out as though she'd discovered it. How alarmingly out of touch! Didn't she even do a cursory google search to find that this article had been written many, many times before? And that those articles were better?

"No Idle Hands" is a wonderful book, but I got the sense the article's author merely flipped through it. She didn't get into the, well, knitty gritty of the feminism and domesticity discussion, choosing to gloss over it. It's a complicated and controversial topic that shouldn't be addressed at all if it can't be addressed fully.

And her anecdotes about her grandmother couldn't have been less heart-warming. She had nothing new to say and, therefore, shouldn't have said anything!
THIS ROCKS   Logged

lisascenic
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2005 11:13:47 AM »

TIME OUT NEW YORK ACTUALLY DID THIS! Quilting is apparently the new knitting. In a piece about the rise of NYC quilting guilds, they did, in fact, say that the "knitting trend" is "tired," and that sewing (esp. quilting) is the hot new craft.

Oh please!  I've been quilting for about ten years, and knitting for about seven, and  while yarn stores have been springing up like mushrooms in the middle of the night, the number of quilting stores has stayed the same.

One of the great joys is knitting is how portable -- and thus social -- it is. Clearly, it would be challenging to bring one's sewing machine, fabric stash and cutting mat to the local coffee shop.  I can tell you from personal experience that dragging around a queen sized quilt and quilting in public just isn't that convenient. 

I challenge anyone to come up with the quilting equivalent (in terms of instant gratification) of the good old garter stich scarf!  I crank out knitting projects at a pretty furious pace, but am lucky if I can finish a quilt every other year.  (But my work is pretty complicated...)
THIS ROCKS   Logged

storybook_farm
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2005 02:56:00 PM »

I have little to add --you all have made such excellent points--when I read the piece I was going "pah, pah, pah" with disgust--who the hell is editing these days at the NYT?  PeeWee Herman?


As to annoying knitting pieces--that would be almost all of them, wouldn't it.?


Although there was a charming article in The Newark Star Ledger a few weeks ago--it was in a Local section so it isn't online or I would have posted it.  It was a bout a club in a local high school that had to do a service project--one of the girls in the club likes to knit so she got everyone knitting blankets for babies for some charity org.  The boys all got interested, too and they started meeting up and knitting every day--there wasn't a single cliche in the piece--the writer interviewed some of the boys and they were talking about knitting as a great way to impress girls--very funny!

also, none of the moms would admit they could knit at first, but soon they started up--either knitting again or learning.

It was fascinating on many levels.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
Threads you might like:
Pages: 1 2 3 [All] Jump to page:
  Send this topic  |  Print  |  Bookmark  
 
Jump to:  



only results with images
include swap threads
advanced search



your ad could be here!

How-To Videos
Julien Macdonald - London - Spring 2014 - Backstage, Interviews & Runway
How To Get The DKNY Runway Look For Less
Ways To Wear Boxy Tops
DIY Gladiator Sandals: VIBE Vixen Style Profile
Get The Alexa Chung Style
Latest Blog Articles
DIY Summer
Craft Challenge 101 Announced - Stash Buster
July 8, 2014 Featured Projects

Comparison Shopping




Support Craftster
Become a
Friend of Craftster

Buy Craftster Swag
Buy Craft Supplies
Comparison Shopping

Craftster heartily thanks the following peeps...
Moderators

Follow Craftster...






Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Copyright ©2003-2014, Craftster.org an Internet Brands company.