A Crafts Community For Craft Ideas & DIY Projects - Craftster.org
Help | About | Contact | Press | Advertise | Terms | Site Map
Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Random Tip: Did you know you can view all images posted by a member? Learn how here!
Total Members: 302,606
Currently Running With Scissors:
400 Guests and 3 Users
Home Craftster Community Crafting Articles Craft Tutorials My Craftster Crafting Calendar City Guides Craft Shop


Pages: 1 2 [All]
Jump to page:
  Show Images Only     Send this topic  |  Print  |  Bookmark  
Topic: Celluclay or LI-QUA-CHÉ ?  (Read 3286 times)
Tags for this thread:  Add new tag
Share the love... Pin it Submit to reddit add to Wists
1+
 
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« on: February 04, 2008 02:37:19 PM »

Was looking into trying Celluclay for a mosaic project I'm planning, but found LI-QUA-CHÉ listed also. Now I'm wondering which one would be the better choice.

http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/clay/celluclay.htm

Anyone have any experience with either or both, and want to lend some wisdom?  Grin

Reference:
Quote
Celluclay - Celluclay and Celluclay II Instant Paper Machè - Simply add water. Needs no firing; air dries. Completely nontoxic. Adheres to almost any surface. Versatile - can be sanded, sawed, and nailed.

Celluclay and Celluclay II are low cost, recycled paper mediums which mix easily and mold quickly. They can be sanded, sawed, nailed and water proofed.

Wet Celluclay can be added to areas already dried . And any unused mixed Celluclay can be stored for several days in a sealed plastic bag in the refrigerator. Celluclay adheres to almost any surface and can be combined with a variety of materials. Celluclay requires no special tools for working. (simple sculpting tools include plastic knife, fork, stirrer, toothpicks, cookie cutters, etc.)

Quote
LI-QUA-CHÉ is a recycled paper fiber, polymer based compound that is not fire hardened. It air dries at ambient room temperature to a hard, durable, break resistant product. Low water content and a special manufacturing process allow for an increased number of castings with your plaster/ceramic molds. LI-QUA-CHÉ’s viscosity provides for easy pourability and a satin, smooth exterior surface. The paper fiber’s reinforcing action can be seen on the interior surface of each casting.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2008 10:18:02 AM »

Never heard of the second one, but after looking at the page, I see it's a liqiud/paste form, as opposed to Celluclay which is dry.

The other differences seem to be cost (!), and the smoothness of the dried result (Celluclay dries lumpy, but guess it could always be sanded).  LI-QUA-CHÉ may have the same smoothness as Creative Paperclay, etc., which comes as a bar of paper clay rather than a liquid-paste.

Both will require a lot of sealing though if they'll be anywhere near humidity or wetness.

Are you specifically looking to use a paper product rather than polymer clay or cheap bulk air-dry clays like Mexican Pottery clay, etc.?


Diane B.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008 10:19:51 AM by Diane B. » THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2008 11:19:27 AM »

Thank you DianeB. !

The interest is to make a piece that will then be mosaiced. People have used the Celluclay with much success, but I was wondering about the LI-QUA-CHÉ. None of the people I asked had tried it, but were interested once I pointed it out.

Cannot find it locally, so I'll have to order it online it seems. Shipping  Roll Eyes
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008 11:44:29 AM »

Oh, I see.  You want to use it as a form for covering with mosaic, right? 
Would you be pouring it into a mold?... in that case, I could see using the LI-QUA-CHE, or other pourable things like plaster, etc.  If you're using a mold but don't need to pour, then you could use all kinds of things.

Creative Paperclay has been popular for using as a form under polymer clay, but all kinds of other materials have been used too. 

Polymer clays are good compared to air-dry clays since they don't shrink and can be made any size (over an armature if the clay itself would be thicker than 1 1/4") --nowadays Sculpey's new SuperSculpey Firm or perhaps their new Ultralight are good choices if you want to keep the cost down.

Other types of clays have been used as forms to be covered too --like epoxy sculpting materials and synthetic ones. 
The synthetic ones are Apoxie Sculpt and Fixit (which don't shrink at all, and can even be mixed with polymer clays), and some of the other kind are Magic Sculpt, Aves Epoxy Sculpt, Milliput, etc.
(there's more info on those clays and how to use them here:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/sculpture.htm
....click on Epoxy and Other Putties, under Non-Polymer Clays for Sculpting)

If you want to read a bit more about using polymer clay and other "clay" forms, check out the Covering Sculpted Forms with Clay category on that page too.

There's more info on other shapes that can be used under clay on these pages too:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/armatures-perm.htm
(... click on Paperclays, etc....)
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/covering.htm
(... click esp. on Papier Maches, etc.... and Polystryene > Shaping, Cutting... )


And the Mosaics page at my site may have more:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/mosaics_inlay.htm


HTH,

Diane B.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008 11:46:24 AM by Diane B. » THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008 06:19:16 PM »

Thank you Diane for taking the time to give me all that great information!  Smiley

Basically what I want is a clay or substance I can create my own substrates, to be mosaiced. I would prefer not to have to bake the piece to cure it, and thereby not be limited to size.

The Celluclay I had seen used by another mosaic artist, and she pointed out to me some of the draw backs in using it. When I went to research I found the LI-QUA-CHE, and she had not tried or even heard of the product.

Purchased some Celluclay and have in mind to give it a try first. But I for sure want to find what will be the best product for the purpose.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008 10:02:40 PM »

Is there some reason you don't want to use regular mosaic mediums like the ones sold at hardware stores? 
Other things that are also used for grouts should work too like Golden's Extra Coarse Pumice "polymer medium," Golden brand Extra Coarse Pumice Gel, Liquitex modeling paste, Extra Light HydroCal (hobby store), etc.



Diane B.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2008 04:53:16 AM »

The reason would be that I've not heard of those things. Smiley

Are these things that can be molded or sculpted into shapes without forms? Have to go to the site and do some reading.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2008 09:43:00 AM »

Quote
Are these things that can be molded or sculpted into shapes without forms? .

Maybe, maybe not.  Guess I was having some difficulty understanding just what you were asking about.  So what that seems to be is that you're wanting a sculptable or shapable material on which you can apply an adhesive and then tesserae to mosaic the exterior of the sculpt, right?

I think you could use most anything to shape or mold with --depending on the size, dimensionality, and detail of the sculpt you want.  If you used something like wadded aluminum foil, very fine wire mesh, cardboard, paper pulp, etc., you could cover with a "clay" or dough of some type, or hydrocal, plaster, or something, then create the details in that layer.  If you used various clays** from the start , you could get the details in the original sculpt, or could add them later in another layer as above. 

Using one of those as a substrate, you'd  then add an adhesive, tiles, and grout.  So there are 3 mediums to consider besides the tiles --or I guess the adhesive could be eliminated if the tiles were applied to a sculpting medium that was sticky (and polymer clay wouldn't dry out so it would stay receptive as long as needed, compared to an air-dry clay).

So how much detail do you want in your basic sculpt, and how big would it be?  Is weight a factor?  Do you need to make the sculpt solid, or could it have an armature inside?

**epoxy type clays, Creative Paperclay or other paper-based clays like Celluclay, "pottery" clays (air-dired, but not fired), shaped polystyrene foam, even hypertufa


This page has one sculpting medium I hadn't heard of... "Winterstone":
http://www.sculpt.com/catalog_98/Mosaics/Mosaic_Sculpting.htm



Diane B.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008 09:49:31 AM by Diane B. » THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2008 10:52:19 AM »

Here is a link to the original project that got me thinking about trying something:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scribbleandscribe/2221530328/

The butterfly is created ontop of the hardibacker board from Celluclay.

I know of the Rianna method of creating pieces from cement and wire mesh. Which uses the same principles as the Whitestone. With armatures and all very involved process. Doing that is a bit more involved than I am looking to do just now.

Rianna's Website

What I have in mind is doing smaller scale items like doll faces, masks, freeform shapes, musical instrument outlines (violin,guitar), and possibly some bowl or vase type shapes. Detail is another aspect I do want to explore, also.

I'm thinking for weight sake I should probably try the Celluclay or something similar like the Creative Paperclay you linked to above. While I'm not real concerned about weight per se, sometimes using glass and tile can make a piece get a bit heavier than I would like the finished pieces to be.

Thank you so much Diane for helping me out with this. You have so much knowledge, and you're helping me to look at all the aspects of what I want to achieve.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008 11:16:07 AM »

Quote
Here is a link to the original project that got me thinking about trying something:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scribbleandscribe/2221530328/
The butterfly is created ontop of the hardibacker board from Celluclay.

I don't know what hardibacker board is but there are "cement boards" and things like that for underlayment at home improvement places that I think are used for mosaics as well.  Don't know what the price difference would be.

Hardware stores also have extruded polystyrene foam in thick sheets (used for insulation for walls, roofs, etc., that might be ideal ... cheap, stiff, fairly lightweight, can be cut into thick flat shapes, and can even be carved dimensionally (if the sculpt is taller than a single sheet, several sheets can be glued together then carved).

Quote
I know of the Rianna method of creating pieces from cement and wire mesh. Which uses the same principles as the Whitestone. With armatures and all very involved process. Doing that is a bit more involved than I am looking to do just now.


Is she just using hypertufa??  It's pretty easy, cheap, and strong... it does have some cement in it, but it's easy enough to do that various places give one day lessons just to get people started...in fact, I used to have a photo of a bunch of senior citizens making things at one of those classes but it seems to be gone now. 

No armatures are required for some shapes/sizes, but they can also be used for certain items.  It can be molded and also mosaic-ed.  It's great for larger items, but can also be used for medium-sized ones.
You might really want to check out some of the info and photos I have links to on this page of my site to find out more about it if you don't already know:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/other_materials.htm
(...click on Hypertufa)
Here are some slab sculpted faces made from hypertufa with mosaic tiles added, for example:
http://www.gardenstew.com/about3431.html

And there is more on making "art" and other items from Quickcrete, or other mixes on this page:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/outdoor_snowglobes_fountains.htm
(... click on Cement Mixes)


HTH,

Diane B.

THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008 07:58:01 AM »

Diane
Hardibacker board is sort of a cross between sheetrock and MDF. It is pretty lightwiehgt so the tesserae does not make it an imovable object.

The foam I've seen others use for mosaic, but I'm not sure I've ever seen the large blocks that can be sculpted. Have to check that out, too.

You've certainly given me many options to check out that I had no idea about. I'm wanting options for my substrates and all your help has given me plenty.

Thanks Diane! Smiley
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008 12:41:15 PM »

Quote
The foam I've seen others use for mosaic, but I'm not sure I've ever seen the large blocks that can be sculpted.

Some people have used "regular" craft and packing expanded polystyrene foam (basically little balls, pressed together into shapes or sheets),  but because that's more crumbly and can't get as smooth a surface easily, lots of suclptors go for the extruded type of polystyrene foam instead.


Below are a few things from my Covering page that deal with that. 
The Hot Wire Foam Factory site, for example, sells all kinds of "hot tools" for shaping foam, and also shows a bunch of things that were made mostly, I think, with the extruded type of ps foam (available at home improvement and supplies stores):

Hot Wire Foam Factory sells even more hot tools... wire cutter, knife, saws, engravers, shapable freehand router, scroll saw table, etc., which can cut anywhere in the foams (even very large sheets) and also allows the cutting of blind holes, fine cutting, grooves for wires, etc.
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/products/customer/home.php?cat=108
(Micromark-- heavier duty version
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=81622 )
free online videos showing tools in use
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/customer/video/video.htm

she used high density "Pinkboard extruded EPS foam"
....can also see the "stacked foam layers" cut into dog shape before smoothing and painting, in background of 3rd-to-last photo
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/customer/gallery/patart_cblack.htm
he used a high density EPS "blue foam" to achieve such detail for the skelton...foam was coated with hydrocal which gave a very realistic bone-like look and feel
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/customer/gallery/patskeleton.htm
mosaics on foam
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/customer/gallery/patart_mosaicmatt.htm
http://eclecticsculpture.com/portfolio.php


I don't know that you can buy "large blocks" of the denser extruded ps foam that can be sculpted without stacking though, but that might be... the general technique is to glue a number of (cut-smaller) sheets together to create a block of the approximate right height, width and length, and then sculpt them with various tools.

HTH,

Diane B.

P.S.  Here's more info on acrylic modeling pastes that can be used over ps foams as well as in other ways:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLC,GGLC:1969-53,GGLC:en&q=modeling+paste

.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2008 12:44:20 PM by Diane B. » THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008 03:15:41 PM »

Diane
That Hotwirefoam site is interesting. The turtle shell mosaic is an amazing piece of art.

There are so many modeling pastes that it will take me a bit to read up on some brands, and zero in on one to try.

In the meantime though I have the one package of Celluclay to try out, and see if I can even manage that, lol.

Thank you again, and I'll keep you posted. Not to mention I'll post pictures when I try the Celluclay. Do you make house calls? Wink
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Diane B.
Offline Offline

Posts: 5061
Joined: 01-May-2004

GlassAttic --polymer clay "encyclopedia"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2008 08:53:39 AM »

Quote
I'll post pictures when I try the Celluclay. Do you make house calls?

This IS a house call... sorta anyway!  LOLOLOL Grin

Looking forward to the pics, and your reports on what worked and what didn't!


Diane B.
THIS ROCKS   Logged

POLYMER CLAY "ENCYCLOPEDIA" 
http://glassattic.com/polymer/contents.htm
few of my photos
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DianeBB
(had to move them from YahooPhotos, so many now without captions)
3littlechicks
Mom to minions
Offline Offline

Posts: 453
Joined: 16-Nov-2007


View Profile available for personal swaps
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008 12:24:18 PM »

I know this is an old post, but I used celluclay, and even though it dried a bit lumpy for my liking, I found it to be really nice to use, small details show up well (and keep their shape) and it's very light. I made a viking helmet and shoulder pads a few years back, and it didn't hurt my husband's head to wear it all night. It really was a joy to use,it would be fun to just try, even if you don't have a project in mind.
THIS ROCKS   Logged
HSG
Global Moderator
Glass Crafts Moderator
Guest Blogger

Tutorial Contributor

Friend of Craftster Friend of Craftster

Oy Vey!
Offline Offline

Posts: 9761
Joined: 18-Aug-2006

Margaritas & Facial Masks


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2008 06:52:36 PM »

Thank you for that reply.

I've played with the paper clay and have not had time to try the celluclay yet. Hope to get to the this coming week. Smiley
THIS ROCKS   Logged

Threads you might like:
Pages: 1 2 [All] Jump to page:
  Send this topic  |  Print  |  Bookmark  
 
Jump to:  



only results with images
include swap threads
advanced search



your ad could be here!

How-To Videos
How to Crochet Little Mary Jane Booties Part 10/19
How to Crochet Little Mary Jane Booties Part 1/19
How to Crochet Little Mary Jane Booties Part 12/19
How to Crochet Leaves Part 6/6
How to Crochet Little Mary Jane Booties Part 11/19
Latest Blog Articles
Spotlight on: Book Making & Binding
@Home This Weekend: Magical Fairy Garden
DIY Summer

Comparison Shopping




Support Craftster
Become a
Friend of Craftster

Buy Craftster Swag
Buy Craft Supplies
Comparison Shopping

Craftster heartily thanks the following peeps...
Moderators

Follow Craftster...






Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Copyright ©2003-2014, Craftster.org an Internet Brands company.