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Topic: so, this is a totally creepy weird question for you med school types out there  (Read 2372 times)
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SquidPrincess
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« on: November 09, 2007 08:54:41 PM »

I mentioned this earlier on craftster today, and I've just been wondering...

We've all heard that Angelina Jolie gave Billy Bob Thorton a necklace that was a vial of her blood, right? Right? No? Well, okay, she did, or at least has claimed on several occasions she did, as did he, and so on.

So, I mean--IF you were to put blood in a vial WHICH I AM NOT SUGGESTING IS A GOOD IDEA, OR SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DO (or, for that matter, something I'm going to run out and do)--would it, I don't know, work? Say, in a corked vial? Would it clot or separate or something? In short, would it continue to look like blood? Would you need to, I don't know, do something to it? I know we separate plasma and red blood cells to store blood for transfusions (go go Dr. Charles Drew!), but, uh...that's about all I know. Yeah. And transfusion is more complicated than, HEY! It's some blood! In a jar! For no good reason!

So, hey! Med students! Help an English major out!

I know there are probably some pagan types out there who are totally cool with this or something like this (c'mon--there are even santeros on here, somewhere, I'm certain), so, uh...do you guys know?

This is a probably going to be a fiddly bit in a book I'm writing, later. I'd like to know if this would bring hilarious amounts of fail. I'd like to find out without having to try it, myself, 'cause I'm not crazy about the whole self harm thing. Word.

And if the vampire look is your thing, hey! Get a small vial and some SFX blood! Rock out! I hear it works. I wish I had been thinking of this before Halloween!
 http://www.bloodvials.com/
you know, like this, but cooler and more DIY.
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vinnie451
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007 12:49:10 AM »

I'm neither a med student nor a bloodologist but I do watch ALOT of CSI when I'm crafting. Sometimes its the only thing on. There are chemicals called anti-coagulents. Some fictional characters have used this to extend the life of blood. I don't know how accurate this is to real life but it may give you a place to start.
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Infinite Annie
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2007 01:33:28 AM »

You definitely win the award for the most intriguing question of the week.

I'm with vinnie451 and the anti-coagulants.  Also, I think the jar or vial would have to be hermetically sealed to keep the blood from eventually evaporating and, of course, to avoid attracting vampires and the like.  Shocked
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007 11:50:02 AM »

Hermetically sealed with a bit of mixed-in garlic powder? Wink

Asprin is an anti-coagulant, or at least contains one. So is warfarin, used medically to prevent blood clots but more commonly known as a rat poison. I don't know if grinding up asprin would do the job, but the point is these chemicals aren't uncommon, so it'd probably be possible to get enough into the blood that it stayed runny. You'd also need a preservative to stop the blood going off, even if the jar was airtight. So a bit of blood and lots of chemicals.
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SquidPrincess
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007 06:56:23 PM »

Hmm, thanks, everyone. Yeah, airtight seal seems like it would be important... And that would be pretty easy to do, right? I'm just wondering what kind of preservative would work. I like to think that ground up asprin would be useful, but I'm guessing that's probably not how it, uh, does stuff...I'll go wikipedia "aspirin" and see if that helps.

hahahah...thanks to everyone for bothering to respond to such a weird thread. Smiley you guys rule. Seriously, thanks. I love the idea of a "poisoned" blood vial--garlic powder included! Vampire bait. There should be a cheesy horror spoof story about this somewhere.

and I watch CSI when it's on the the gym and I'm running my three miles and there aren't good cartoons on. Heh.
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Asbjrn
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007 10:16:48 PM »

Well, I'm not a med student but I am a cook and I can tell you that blood rots (as does anything organic), and when it rots it absolutely reeks. I wouldn't be surprised if you could could smell it right through a cork it's that strong smelling. I would also venture a guess that it would coagulate over time within a vial. If you're just going for effect I'd suggest something like slightly thinned enamel (nail polish even), as for the real deal? I can't see it working unless you had a way to add a preservative to it and seal it in something with no air. 
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SuperLupus
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2007 02:58:55 PM »

I don't know why I am answering this. Now I'm officially a creepy nerd. The idea of anti-coagulants is a good one. Except that there is no liver involved in breaking down the solid forms (pills) into elements to be distributed through the blood stream. However, Lovenox is an injectable, and colorless. Anticoagulants inhibit clotting, but don't stop it altogether. Unless, as you said they processed the red blood cells out. OR said donor was extremely thrombocytopenic.

The vials used would likely not be the ones we are used to seeing. My guess would be a sample is taken and a hand blown glas vial would be filled and sealed. However I think the heat of the glass would curdle the specimine because of the protiens in whole blood.

The processes involved in preserving the sample would render it useless as blood. and any exposure to oxygen would certainly degrade the specimine. I do have one idea for the retrieval instrument but it's all complicated and well, disturbing LOL. If it's a whole blood sample they would have to mix it occasionally. Even in a perfect world blood does seperate out and solid cells fall to the bottom.

A properly frozen sample could in theory last indefinately. If you were plotting a resurrection of sorts. Degraded or not it could be used for indentification.

*Sigh* now I'm picturing men in black suits knocking on my door. LOL

note: lovenox or heparin, both are very available and in liquid form.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007 10:32:44 AM by SuperLupus - Reason: added » THIS ROCKS   Logged
Infinite Annie
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007 04:55:04 PM »

Hermetically sealed with a bit of mixed-in garlic powder? Wink

Ah, yes indeed!  Nothing like a good back-up system in the event of catastrophic cork failure!

And, what's this of Warfarin being the same ingredient as rat poison, talyra?  It disturbs me to think that after the mighty-furry ones steal all the cheese from my miraculously unsprung traps ,that I am then turning around and curing them of the effects of high cholesterol.

I don't know why I am answering this. Now I'm officially a creepy nerd...Anticoagulants inhibit clotting, but don't stop it altogether. Unless, as you said they processed the red blood cells out. OR said donor was extremely thrombocytopenic...
*Sigh* now I'm picturing men in black suits knocking on my door. LOL...

I wondered, like you, the same thing about myself and have since figured that this was some sort of trap to lure out us closet "creepy nerds".

That said, I appreciated your whole reply and apologize for having "separate[ed] out", some of the details for the sake of brevity in the blue area above, but what the hell-dog is "thrombocytopenic"?

Gotta go, someone's knocking at my door, as well....

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SquidPrincess
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2007 09:48:47 PM »

You marvelously knowledgeable geniuses of feasibility! It's amazing! This whole thing seems so plausible now! Uh. I mean...what a fascinating hypothetical scenario. Right.

Quote
I wondered, like you, the same thing about myself and have since figured that this was some sort of trap to lure out us closet "creepy nerds".

no more so than my usual interactions in the real world are.
which, uh--isn't saying that much, I guess. [avoid me when you see me riding public transportation, guys. i do great small talk.]

thrombocytopenic seems to mean that blood doesn't clot? Sometimes to do with palate count? I had this one friend in high school that had some weird blood condition along the lines of excessive bleeding if case of surgery...not extreme, though, he had some routine procedure or another and was okay. Weird. Fascinating. I should go ask him...hah.

So, yeah. Very educational thread. Love the idea of curing rats of high cholesterol, although I know it doesn't work that way. Love the garlic powder seal. Love craftster. <3 I think "lovenox" is a great name for--something. Anything. Great name.

Goodness, though. Hand blown glass vials and so on...guess I should go learn about glass? In the perfect world, I'd be able to simplify and shrink this design and etch it onto a vial:



it's the veve for Erzulie, the loa of love, shiny things, sex, the arts, dreams, creativity, etc., etc.

I kind of expected this thread to be totally ignored! So the replies are quite the surprise...thanks, guys.

also, infinite annie--what is going on in your avatar? is that a CPK?
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"Revolution is a trivial shift in the emphasis of suffering." --Tom Stoppard
....
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/spooookypants/
....
la felicidad tiene tu nombre y tu piel
SuperLupus
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2007 11:21:39 PM »

thrombocytopenic is low platelet count. Can be caused by so many things. APS, immune issues or even chemo can drop plateletes measured in thousands but refered to as 150-500 is normal range. I run around the 30's which usually gets me a phone call telling me to stay indoors and avoid knives.

Oooh something strangely amusing about thromocytopenia. You'd expect excessive bleeding or easy bruising. But when it's really low you can bleed out of your pores. you develope peticheia and sometimes just bleed out of your pores. It doesn't hurt but is rather alarming to have lil streamers while taking a bath. Haemophilia is another disorder. Just so you know vitamin K promotes clotting. 

Warfarin is used in rat poison. I large doses the blood becomes so thin the organs a rendered useless as they just bleed out through their tissues. Another good one for heart issues is digoxin. It makes a heart beat stronger. High doses like in a rat poison make the victims heart pound and race until it just gives out. (insert creepy laughter) I use both of these pharmeceuticals.

I hope it gives you some good background for developing into your book. I find it fascinating, but I'm sure some people are shocked and appaulled. Glad you asked. It's been fun to shell out some of my arcania to others.
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