Help decoding Old knitting patterns

[tigerEyes]

I checked out a book with traditional knitting patterns from Europe.  The problem is the book was written in 1962, so the language is not up to date. Here is what I need deciphered into today's knitting language.

w.f.            Wool foward
w.o.n.        Wool on needle
w.r.n.         Wool round needle
K or P t.b.l.          Through back of loop
k.b.           Knit into back of stitch

*the book is "Traditional Knitting Patterns..." by James Norbury"

[starlings]

wool forward = yarn forward/yarn over
wool on needle? = I have no idea.  For this, I'd need a context in which it is used. Is it possible that it's a crochet term? Or could it be just another way of saying wf/yo?
wool round needle = I think this is like a 360-degree yarn over, where you're wrapping the yarn fully around the needle. Often you drop the extra loop off on the following row.
Ktbl, ptbl = these are in current use. To ktbl, rather than inserting your needle through the front of the stitch, you sneak it through the back, like so:
http://knitting.about.com/library/bllearnktbl.htm

to purl tbl, do this:
http://knitting.about.com/library/bllearnptbl.htm

k.b.= this must be the same as ktbl - unless...it may be used in kf&b or k1kb or something: an increase where you knit into the front and back of the same stitch

well, i tried.

[tigerEyes]

wool forward = yarn forward/yarn over
wool on needle? = I have no idea.  For this, I'd need a context in which it is used. Is it possible that it's a crochet term? Or could it be just another way of saying wf/yo?
wool round needle = I think this is like a 360-degree yarn over, where you're wrapping the yarn fully around the needle. Often you drop the extra loop off on the following row.
Ktbl, ptbl = these are in current use. To ktbl, rather than inserting your needle through the front of the stitch, you sneak it through the back, like so:
http://knitting.about.com/library/bllearnktbl.htm

to purl tbl, do this:
http://knitting.about.com/library/bllearnptbl.htm

k.b.= this must be the same as ktbl - unless...it may be used in kf&b or k1kb or something: an increase where you knit into the front and back of the same stitch

well, i tried.

Thanks for your help.  Here is how wool on needle and wool round needle is used in this pattern.

Madeira Mesh Pattern – Spain
Multiple of 6 + 7
1st-6th rows: K2, * w.r.n., p3tog, w.o.n., k3, rep. from *, w.o.n., k2.
7th-12th rows: K2, *k3, w.r.n., p3tog, w.o.n., rep. from *, k5

Also k2tog tbl and p2tog tbl is how tbl is used in the pattern that I'm copied.

[subloke]

I checked out a book with traditional knitting patterns from Europe.  The problem is the book was written in 1962, so the language is not up to date. Here is what I need deciphered into today's knitting language.

w.f.            Wool foward
w.o.n.        Wool on needle
w.r.n.         Wool round needle
K or P t.b.l.          Through back of loop
k.b.           Knit into back of stitch

*the book is "Traditional Knitting Patterns..." by James Norbury"

Wool Forward is when you switch the yarn between being held in back and being held in front, ie when you go to purl

Wool on needle:  I've been trying to figure this one out since my mom gave me her old "Mon Tricot Knitting Dictionary" published in France (with British- English terminology) in 1972-- my source for what i'm writing here.  I found a stitch description that uses w.o.n. between a p2 and a k1 to make an increase.  So, my thought is that it is a YO increase between a purl and a knit.  I can't find any better description

Wool round needle is the same as when modern patterns say "YO" to increase.  (especially in a knit row as the yarn actually goes all the way around the needle)

K/P TBL is in fact Knit/purl through back loop

K B:  I have usually seen this written "K1B" and usually means "Knit 1 into row below" like what is used in the Brioche stitch (which I can not do to save my life) -- so I'm not sure that this (what I wrote) is what your book means

[melidomi]

Wool on needle:  I've been trying to figure this one out since my mom gave me her old "Mon Tricot Knitting Dictionary" published in France (with British- English terminology) in 1972-- my source for what i'm writing here.  I found a stitch description that uses w.o.n. between a p2 and a k1 to make an increase.  So, my thought is that it is a YO increase between a purl and a knit.  I can't find any better description

Hmm, sounds to me like a make 1 increase.  Where you knit into the running yarn between two stitches.

[ookpik]

Hark! A written definition from an old patons book! I quote:

"wool forward" - w.fwd. ....is bringing the wool between 2 knit
stitches

"wool on needle" - w.o.n.......is the same action between a purl and
a knit stitch

"wool round the needle" - w.r.n.......is the same action between two
purl stitches or between a knit stitch and a purl stitch

So in my estimation, all of them have since been condensed to just "yarn over = y.o."

In that case, since all those w.r.n's and w.o.n's are increases that aren't worked on an existing stitch, those sample row instructions are b0rked. how can "k2 *6 sts in, 6sts out* yo k2" be worked on a multiple of 6 + 7?? That is a multiple of 6 + 4. The first 6 rows are also increasing 1 every row, which screws up the repeatability of those instructions. I don't get it. Do they really mean "K to end"? That would work, since by the end of the 6th row, there would be 6 increases to make one complete pattern repeat in time for row 7 to start fresh.

Anyway. Over-analyst over and out.

[starlings]

Aha! ookpik! You've cracked the code. As soon as tigerEyes posted the pattern excerpt, it was much clearer.  Imagine - three different terms for the basic yarn over!

I also agree that the pattern seems kind of wonk, but I haven't the energy to drag out my needles and try.  Maybe tomorrow.

[lkcunning]

You could also check out the Madeira Mesh pattern that Barbara Walker has in one of her books. I know she has one, but it might not be the same pattern. Her directions are impeccable, so it's worth a look.

[tigerEyes]

subloke, starlings, and ookpik: After I posted the pattern, I went to knitting.about.com and I found out the meaning to all those "won, wf, wrn" which are yarn overs.  Who knew the same term can be expressed in different ways.

As for the pattern being wonk, I'll have to test it out this weekend and I'll post the results.  I have four other patterns to check as well from the same book.

lkcunning: I'll check for that next time I'm at the library.

[tigerEyes]

Hey, I know it's been awhile since I said I'd do a sample of the patterns but now I have some time to whip them up.  Here's the first one:

Madeira Leaf Pattern

The pattern as follows:
Cast on multiple of 12 + 5
Rows 1-6: K2, *k1, yo, k4, p3tog, k4, yo, rep. from *, k3.
Rows 7-12: K2 p2tog, *k4, yo, k1, yo, k4, p3tog, rep. from *, k4, yo, k1, yo, k4, p2tog, k2.
Repeat these rows to form pattern.

However in my sample I had to omit the * section in rows 7-12 because it didn't make sense with the number of stitches I cast on with.